Author Topic: Bally S5500 83f code. No Battery (Read 19079 times)

cowboygames · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2016, 12:11:34 PM »

To hold memory for any lengh of time with the machine off it would have to be a really big cap. They charge quickly and discharge almost as fast. If Bally bypassed the battery with a circuit rewire, putting a battery in won't help. Did you ever look for a cabinet mounted battery?

Evensteven · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2016, 06:14:19 PM »

I did reset. I get chc then clc. When I put the jumper back and turn it back on it goes to 83f

rokgpsman · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2016, 06:55:50 PM »

Here's a partial list of the Bally error codes. It shows that an error code "83F" indicates the formatting to the ram has been lost. It suggests that the battery could be bad, the ram chip may be bad or that a complete ram clear procedure is needed if a ROM chip was changed. Makes it sound like a good battery is needed. Did you do a complete ram clear or a partial clear?

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2016, 07:27:34 PM »

A Remote battery could be located behind reels or in upper cabinet. Can you post pics of inside of your machine with hopper removed and behind the top glass?

Evensteven · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2016, 06:29:06 PM »

I looked it over good. There is nothing that resembles a battery.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2016, 06:39:12 PM »

Well, this is something of a mystery. Just to double-check, you know personally (not something that was told to you) that this machine worked fine the last time it was powered up? And the mpu board that is in it now without the battery is the same mpu that has always been in it, someone hasn't swapped it around from another machine during the time the machine was sitting unused? (you mentioned you had bought and worked on 15 machines)

After doing a ram clear the clear process formats the ram so it can be used by the mpu to store data. The battery is what keeps this formatting (and any data) intact. That's why Bally calls it "SafeRAM". Without a battery as soon as power to the machine is removed the ram formatting and any data is lost/destroyed.

I'd be inclined to install a new battery, do a complete ram clear and see what happens.

Evensteven · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2016, 06:51:21 PM »

No. This machine has been in my gameroom for at least five years. It worked great. Nothing was touched.
It came from ballys casino in Puerto Rico. I did notice it had no battery when I got it.

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2016, 07:05:55 PM »

Have you ever done a clear on this machine before? Maybe you should try using a clear chip.?

rokgpsman · « **Reply #28 on:** May 11, 2016, 07:37:45 PM »

I'm wondering if this has something to due with the machine being from Puerto Rico or a cruise ship jurisdiction. I don't know anything about their casino regulation laws, but maybe they didn't use the bookkeeping data that would be stored in the SAFERam U67 & U68 chips? Assuming Bally built this mpu without a battery and without nearby jumper JW12 (the mpu board schematic shows that JW12 must be installed for the battery voltage to get to the SAFERam chips U67, U68) then maybe Bally knew the battery would not be needed. But I don't understand why it is giving an error now, if nothing about the mpu has been changed, including the MAINS and game eproms.

The SAFE ram chips are U67 and U68. They are type 84256 static ram chips, require 5 volts for power and at least 2 volts or higher to retain the data stored in them. When power to your machine is off, and no battery on the mpu board, these 2 chips would not have any power, unless there is a mod we don't know about.

Can you tell us what the Bally part number on your mpu board is? Also, I'm not a Bally expert but those labels on the MAINS and game eproms don't look like Bally factory original.

Evensteven · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:07:28 AM »

Here are some pics of mains. Not sure if original. They look to be. The red tape is tamper tape from tourism department.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:44:35 AM »

The part number on your mpu board is slightly different than the normal one (AS-3356-229 instead of -201), possibly because of it being built with no battery, maybe other reasons as well. It looks like you have added a battery to the mpu, remember that the jumper JW12 will also need to be added, otherwise the battery won't get connected to anything. But I am going by the schematic for a -201 board and yours is -229 (?) so not totally sure about that. Plus, if the board was built without a battery and it worked for years without one I don't know if adding one will take care of the error you are seeing. Maybe someone here has seen that board you have and can add some info.

I found an old ad where someone was selling a Bally AS-3356-229 mpu, same part number as your mpu, and their board did not have a battery on it. So that reinforces the idea that the -229 mpu did not have a battery installed.

The eprom MAINS labels don't look like the Bally original labels. If you look back at the photo in reply#1 from Sunrise Side you will see how Bally labels their firmware (eproms with copyrighted software inside). So I don't think your eproms are original, but they may be copies that are just as good, that happens a lot and the machine works fine. It just adds another unknown. But since the eproms are the same ones that have been in it all this time that shouldn't be what is causing your problem. I'm trying to account for how your machine would work all that time, with no battery, then fail now.

Evensteven · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:12:34 PM »

Like I said I bought 12 non working machines and I think on this one I used a board from a parts machine and bought the EPROMs to match the machine( stars and bars).
It worked fine.
So what would be my next step? new board? Mains?

rokgpsman · « **Reply #32 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:14:21 PM »

Since there are no labels with part numbers on the MAINS eproms it is unknown which ones they are. I think there is a way in the diagnostic/setup that you can get the machine to display the SMI# for the eproms on the board so they can be identified. You could try another MAINS set, do a complete clear procedure then install the new MAINS. Do you have other Bally mpu's or MAINS eproms you can try, or have you gotten rid of the other S5500 machines? If you are eager to get the machine running and don't want to spend more time on getting this -229 mpu working then I'd think a standard -201 mpu would fix it.

As you can see, the number of suggestions and ideas from everyone has slowed due to the nature of this fail. The error code indicates a problem with the SAFERam but the board has no battery to keep the ram data intact. If it wasn't for you saying it worked before then my answer would be simple: The MAINS or other eprom software that is installed in this mpu is not compatible for this version of mpu that doesn't have a battery. It looks as if Bally built some mpu boards without a battery and my guess is the eprom software for those mpu boards was written to not use or check the SafeRAM feature. If someone then replaces those eproms with standard ones that do use the SAFERam then you will get this error. But this is just an idea.

It's a puzzling situation. It sounds like you are familiar with these machines, what's your take on why this machine is now failing?

rokgpsman · « **Reply #33 on:** May 12, 2016, 09:21:02 PM »

You said you bought the Stars and Bars eproms for this mpu and installed them so that the mpu would have the right game software for this machine. I was looking at the last photos you posted, the labels on the 2 Stars & Bars eproms U18 & U20 have the same white mylar labeling that is on the MAINS eproms U3, U4, U12, U15, as if they all came from the same source. To be clear, this means that you also bought and replaced the 4 MAINS eproms also, right?

If so, do you still have those original MAINS eproms from this mpu that you removed?

Evensteven · « **Reply #34 on:** May 13, 2016, 05:19:46 AM »

Thank you for your reply. I do have the old Eproms but they aren't labeled. Is there a way to identify them?
If not I will look for a 201 mpu with new chips and put my personality chips in. Options are getting thin.
Also I can't find a jw12 on the board so these must be designed without a battery.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 13, 2016, 07:36:12 AM »

You're right, the battery jumper JW12 was not installed since the board was built without a battery, but the two solder pads for JW12 are there so you could simply add a small wire between them to make the connection, that's all a jumper would do. The board is labeled "BATT JW12" where the jumper would have been, the writing on the board is partly flaked off, I've circled it in the photo below.

If you added the jumper wire to connect the JW12 pads then that might get the battery voltage over to the SAFERam chips U67 and U68. That way the SAFERam would retain its data after you do a complete clear and hopefully get rid of the 83f error. Adding the jumper for JW12 would be fairly easy, it's worth a shot. You can add it on the top or the backside of the board, might be easier on the backside since there wouldn't be any chips in the way, just be careful to get the correct 2 solder pads. I'd also temporarily remove the battery from the board while adding the jumper wire. Since the battery is in a battery holder that will be easy.

Do you have the Bally S5500 clear chips? Or do you do the clear procedure a different way?

rokgpsman · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2016, 07:45:05 AM »

On the 6 old eproms that you still have that used to be in this mpu, the two eproms that say U18 and U20 on the label are what Bally calls the PERSONALITY eproms. They have the game software for whatever game the mpu originally was installed in. The part number on them is for the game called Wild Rose or Wild Money.

On the other 4 eproms unfortunately the labels are gone from 3 of them. Any chance you still have the old labels? It might be helpful to know what the labels said. These eproms are what Bally calls the MAINS and SUPPLEMENTS chips. The MAINS would be U12 and U15, the label id would start with the letters "ME", like "ME920000". The U15 eprom still has its label.

The 2 SUPPLEMENTS chips would be U3 and U4, their label id number would start with "SE" and likely be the same number as the MAINS, so it would be "SE920000".

An idea I had was for you to put the two MAINS chips (U15 and U12) back into the board and see if that got rid of the 83f error. But without the labels you won't know which eprom is U12. It maybe could be identified with an eprom burner, they can read the contents of an eprom and give its checksum, which is an identifying method. The eprom burner software also displays the eprom contents on the computer screen and you can look thru the data for anything that might id it.

When you bought the Stars and Bars eproms to install in this mpu were you told you had to replace the other 4 eproms also? Wondering if it was necessary to change them. I'm still leaning toward the idea that maybe the MAINS and/or SUPPLEMENTS eproms are specific for this -229 mpu board. I don't see another way for the SAFERam error to go away since the board does not and never did have a battery. Maybe the original MAINS and SUPPLEMENTS chips would let this board work without giving the 83f error.

You said earlier that this mpu came from a parts donor machine, what happened to the original mpu from this Stars and Bars machine? Could you have used the Stars and Bars eproms from that original mpu for this mpu? Trying to figure out how you got to where things are now, that might shed light on the way this board works.

Another question, under that red security tape is where the mpu dipswitches would be. But it looks like instead of dipswitches the board has 2 shunt blocks (sometimes called punch blocks). Is this correct? If so, it means the board preferences and options are not easily changed, which is the way the Puerto Rico gaming regulators wanted it I guess. Did the other machines you bought at the same time have a similar mpu board? If you can remove that tape and post a photo of the punch blocks (or dipswitches) we can see how they are set for options/preferences.

Evensteven · « **Reply #37 on:** May 13, 2016, 08:49:11 AM »

Ok , as I understand I don't been clear chips on this one. Is that correct? I do get CHC when I do the procedure with the jumper and two buttons.
I believed all the machines came from the same place( all had Puerto Rico sticker)They were in a storage unit bought at auction. I think the machine was missing the MPu board and hopper. I took it out of a wild roses parts machine. It worked but obviously it needed personality chips. They sent all the white label chips so I used them all.
I will try installing a jumper on j12 and clear it to see what happens. Also I will try the old eproms that are labeled.
I will send a pic of punchblocks later.
Thanks for you help.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2016, 09:00:07 AM »

Getting the CH C after doing the clear makes me think you are clearing it correctly but you should get a CL C also. There are 2 ram chips (U67, U68) that get cleared, the CH C is for clearing one ram chip, the CL C is for the other ram chip.

Hoping that adding the jumper at JW12 will get rid of the 83f error. I know this is taking a lot of your time but that -229 mpu may work just fine once the 83f error is gone.

When I was reading about the clear procedure it said there are different methods, depending on the board or the MAINS that is installed. On some setups you have to remove a couple of eproms and install special clear eproms to do the clear.

I'm not a Bally expert, don't know if you would have had to replace all 6 eproms on the board when they sent them to you. Maybe they were just making sure. But if the Personality eproms alone would have worked with the original MAINS in this mpu that might have kept the 83f error from happening?

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #39 on:** May 13, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »

92000 mains you can move the JW10 to do a clear. The newer 95000 96000 mains you need to use a clear chip.

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Author Topic: Bally S5500 83f code. No Battery (Read 19079 times)