Author Topic: Need help bringing an EM Bally 831-ZF back from the dead (Read 30358 times)

Amechanic · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2015, 01:51:13 PM »

Black Glass would work too since the Belly glass is Red & Black. It doesn't have to be perfect since I'm making a storage locker/cabinet out of the case and reel shelve. It's a work in progress. How in the heck are you going to move all those parts you have back here in MI?

DavidLee · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2015, 03:36:16 PM »

Lots of great information posted about your machine. I'm sure your going to double check all the wiring, contacts etc for any obvious shorts or burn marks.
Is the fuse holder screw in place or just resting on the bottom of the case? Either or you might consider moving it up above the labels for better access if possible. With the wires being taped together I would assume the machine was running, but had a low amp short, but high enough to blow fuses, but you never know why it was done in the first place.
The 110v florescent light operate behind a 5 amp fuse and in theory would blow when the machine was plugged in
if there was a direct short. If one of the florescent transformers where bad or going bad this might cause the main power supply to slowly burn out if the fuse was by passed. You can visually check transformers for leaking black residue, deformities or sometime you can sniff them out, but this is just old school trouble shooting.
You may consider this after everything is installed and tripled check. Start one fuse at a time, starting with the 110v fuse holder leaving the others empty and progress from there. Also probably disconnect the florescent lighting as it may be the problem. Then add one fuse at a time to see what happens and on which of the three circuits. If you can determined what circuit, then its just a matter of elimination by component or disconnecting and reconnecting plugs one at a time to narrow down the problem.

Good luck and waiting to hear what caused the problem.

clk71 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 05, 2015, 06:17:01 AM »

Thanks to all for the help so far. As promised, here are pics of the raw "wee beastie" herself. What do you think? I started cleaning it up last night after I took the pics and it is really going to sparkle. Multipurpose spray cleaner worked great on the general crud/dust all over the game, and Mean Green instantly cleaned up the tar/smoke residue in the case from cigarettes, cooking transformer, or both. Can't wait to hit it with the chrome polish I picked up from the auto store.

The bulb was $8 for the Phillips version at Home Depot. I bought it just-in-case, then bought four of the correct Sylvania bulbs on EBay for $12 including shipping. I'll return the Home Depot one later.

Looks like I need help with a couple more things before I get into the troubleshooting once the transformer arrives..

1) What do you guys use to clean up the goo in the hoppers? Can I soak it in Mean Green, clean, and let it dry off? What about lubrication?

2) I am missing what I believe is a Reset Key. Anything special about it? The lock assembly is there, just missing the key.

3) What am I missing from the top of the game? I thought it was just some kind of a sign that slid into the top housing, but I saw wiring going up to it when I pulled apart the top. I will need to find whatever it is. Any help there?

4) Dumb new guy question, but how do I remove the belly glass so I can look at the wiring and lights that go there. The transformers on the inside of the door have wires that go behind the belly glass panel. I could just start undoing screws, but some guidance would be appreciated before I end up accidentally taking the whole door apart!

clk71 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2015, 06:18:19 AM »

More pics

clk71 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2015, 06:19:26 AM »

More pics

clk71 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 05, 2015, 06:20:05 AM »

More pics

Jon · « **Reply #26 on:** June 05, 2015, 07:01:02 AM »

Try this for the belly glass http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1809.0

clk71 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 05, 2015, 07:09:45 AM »

Thanks ovenguy10!

clk71 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 08, 2015, 06:15:56 AM »

UPDATE!

Ovenguy10, you are my hero. The transformer and fuse holder showed up Friday. I expected them in a box with newspaper... it was great of you to screw the parts in to some wood to keep them safe! The post office was closed when I got there on Saturday, so they will probably be sending the letter out to you today.

I took the old transformer and fuse holder out, and took off the safety timer and hopper beau plug mounts out to clean that corner out. The timer assembly looked good. The hopper beau plug had two wires taped off together, not sure if that is normal without wiring color schematics. I attached a picture, blue/orange tied to red/white.

Ovenguy sent me the correct fuse holder bracket, with three fuse mounting holes. The old one had four. I found another surprise when I took apart the wires going to the old fuse holder assembly. From last inspection, it appeared that the 6v and 50v fuses were bypasses (missing) and the 120v was fused. Turns out the 120v was also bypassed.... someone had wrapped the fuse in aluminium foil and stuffed it into the holder. Under the yellow tape where one of the other voltages were supposed to be fused, the metal remains of an old fuse holder were still soldered to two of the wires, and the spliced in wire just wrapped around it. What a hack job!

I will solder the wires back together today and see what happens. I have to sort out which wire colors to go the fuse for 50v and 6v (the blue ones or the orange ones), but that should be easy once I meter the transformer taps.

I got on ebay and looked at all the slot machine parts to try to find the sign thing that goes on top of this slot, but had no luck. I might not have recognized it if I did. Is it called a marquee, topper, display sign, or something else? Is this something I will have a hard time finding? I did find someone selling reset locks so I ordered one of those.

Jon · « **Reply #29 on:** June 08, 2015, 07:24:32 AM »

try CV slots he has some Marquis on his webpage a few months ago when I was looking there

clk71 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2015, 06:19:32 AM »

UPDATE!

I got the transformer and fuse holders put together (one of the new ones actually broke when I went to put a fuse in, but I had one old one so it worked out). I got the new fluorescent bulb for the reels, and put in a missing coin tray bulb. I fired it up with out the hopper and reel assembly installed, and no blown fuses. Reel bulb and belly bulb were working fine.

I got brave and added the reel and hopper units and gave it a go. Turned on great. It is a 3 line machine, and had no problem accepting 1, 2 and 3 coins and lighting up the appropriate top unit paylines. Pull the handle and the reels spin and stop with no problems.

Sadly, the game has at least three problems that I have to sort out and I would love your advice.

1) As soon as you put a coin in, the bell starts ringing. Adding the second and third coins do no change this condition. The ringing only stops when you pull the handle to start the reels spinning. The reset key doesn't stop the ringing after coins are added, only the pull. This is strange to me and I am not sure where to start looking.

2) The game blew my 8A solenoid fuse when it tried to pay me out on my first winning spin. The hopper successfully sent two coins to the coin tray, and that was it. The combination on the payline was bar-bar-bar, so I imagine something is seizing the hopper up. What should I look for?

3) There are bulbs around the perimeter of the head unit that I imagine are supposed to light up, but are not. The bulbs test good. These are not the payline bulbs (which work fine), they look like they light up the stars in the top glass.

I also had no success finding a topper for the game so far. I'd like to track down at least a picture so I know what the payouts are supposed to be. Any leads would be greatly appreciated!. In the top unit there are also two ballasts and starters like the ones for the florescent bulbs in the door. Does the topper use two bulbs? I have not disassembled everything there.

clk71 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 11, 2015, 08:26:53 AM »

Does this sound like a good lead for the bell ringing problem? The generic Bally EM manual on page 12 says that reel Mechanism switch C-2 "Completes a Jackpot Bell Circuit (6 V.) & some Games on "Insert Coin" lite circuit."

clk71 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 12, 2015, 06:46:54 AM »

UPDATE. Roslyn at CV Slots didn't have a topper that matched my machine (she has just the ones in the pics on their website), but she did me a huge favor and found one for sale for me on eBay. Thanks ovenguy and Roslyn for the help.

More importantly, I had some time to look into the three issues on my machine a little last night.

1) I was all set to start looking for the loose wire in my top feature unit for the general illumination missing lights, but stopped when I noticed that I couldn't remove the unit. In addition to the beau plug, there were maybe four wires hard wired in that would have to be cut to remove the unit. Seemed weird that there wasn't at least a molex connector. I also noticed that this unit doesn't slide in to steel tracks when inserted like the hopper and reel assembly do. Again, weird. I'll send pics when I get in to this later.

2) Didn't look into the bell yet.

3) Pulled the hopper out to see if I can figure out what went wrong. See the fuse pic to see exactly how wrong things went after getting through two coins of a payout! I noticed that there was quarter up near the top of the ring, and that it appeared tucked under the coin fence (? the triangle shaped piece of metal at the top of the hopper disc, with movement controlled by the override solenoid). This led me to look at the override solenoid and link assembly that are supposed to make it move (parts number 1 & 2 of the electrically stepped hopper unit, on page 108 & 109 of the em manual).

The movement of the plunger in and out of the solenoid felt like I was moving the arm through molasses, very gummy. It was so gummy that the spring that is supposed to pull the plunger back out was not effective. I can't imagine this is normal, and wonder if this is what might have caused my fuse to blow.

I am not sure what the override solenoid's job is. I did not notice any burns marks on it, so I am wondering if some old grease is mucking things up. The lubrication guide says to lube the override solenoid plunger with "Heavy Duty Hyrotex Lube #651". I will disassemble the thing and try to clean things up in there tonight, but what is the lube I should be using on it? Pics of the solenoid in regular and pushed in positions attached.

CVslots · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:01:08 AM »

Cool! Glad that was the right topper! There were so many different ones made, what's the chance!?! I believe we have the correct belly glass for that machine (dark blue with gold "Bally"), if you're looking to replace the one you have.

If you guys ever need any EM parts, let me know. I am scared to death of EMs. My husband LOVES them, and we have 70+ EM machines, plus loads of parts. I don't list the parts because I can't ID them! I need to conquer my fear I guess...

Amechanic · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:33:30 AM »

The top feature light that go around the outer edge should only light up on the largest jackpot when it hit. The feature unit doesn't have guides like the hopper and reels. It just sets on those metal strips.

As for the Hopper, that solenoid is used to kick coins back into the hopper. Since that early style hopper didn't have a brake to stop the payout, that deflector would come out after the payouts reached, and prevents any over pays. It should not bind or stick..

Jon · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:51:16 AM »

I agree Rosalie he does need to change that belly glass it looks tacky

Amechanic · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2015, 10:25:33 AM »

Quote from: ovenguy10 on June 12, 2015, 09:51:16 AM

I agree Rosalie he does need to change that belly glass it looks tacky

That Pink, Yellow, and Red glass is

ugly.. What was Bally thinking when they put those colors together

.. Nothing like the correct Belly glass to finish off a machine..

CVslots · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2015, 11:36:03 AM »

We had a machine that had the pink/orange glass, but 3 matching pieces. I called it Pinky...

It actually wasn't a bad looking machine. Looked almost like it was glowing.

OldReno · « **Reply #38 on:** June 12, 2015, 07:21:14 PM »

I would not put any lube on that override solenoid. Clean it out with some spray solvent and blow lots of air into it. That should free it up.
The override solenoid serves the same purpose as the hopper motor brake (a later feature), in that after the last coin paid passes the coin out roller, then the override solenoid loses power and slams open thus knocking out any extra coins ready to enter the coin out roller area. It's a knock-off device, which was needed because the inertia of the hopper pinwheel often allowed for extra coins to payout. The spring on it allows that to happen quickly.
Sorry, I see Amechanic already has this explained above. Good job.

clk71 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 15, 2015, 08:28:24 AM »

UPDATE

Thanks for the wisdom! I took the override solenoid assembly off the hopper and cleaned the arm and link up. It moves great now. I actually took off the whole assembly off the hopper to do it. You guys would die laughing if you saw me spend a creative 1.5 hrs trying to get the solenoid back on the hopper... one screw/nut combo was a nightmare to get back together because of tight quarters. Thank god for scotch tape, open ended wrenches, glue sticks, and magnetic screwdrivers. Yeesh!

Anyway, feeling proud of my self for putting it back together and hoping my problem was solved, I am still blowing fuses during hopper payouts. These fuses are getting blown pretty bad. It will blow any time between no coins paid out and as many as 11. My best guess now is that the hopper vibration is making something short out. I still have the problem where the bell starts ringing after I deposit the first coin. Could these things be related? I am starting to get frustrated!

Thanks for clarifying the top feature flashing lights, makes sense now. I saw the "S" coil and the flasher bulb attached to it on the top feature unit wood. I thought the attendant service switch on the outside of the front door might be responsible for turning the flashing light on since my game doesn't have the "call attendant/jackpot" toper sticking up the top, just the marquise. Looks like that button I have on the front doesn't do anything... The parts diagram says I am supposed to have a switch attached to the back of the button...all I have are two taped off wires from the harness (pic attached).

On a side note: Thanks to you all for providing the resources and help to try to learn and figure this thing out. I have learned much already!

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Author Topic: Need help bringing an EM Bally 831-ZF back from the dead (Read 30358 times)