Author Topic: Bally 1090 coin lock out d-energizing (Read 16896 times)

DavidLee · « **on:** June 17, 2015, 03:32:17 PM »

Okay, I'm back with some good and bad news. The bad news is, I abandoned the original Bally circuit to the Lock Out Coil and installed a modern circuit of my own. The good news is, I have the lock out coil working as it should. Thanks to my brother who has a better understanding of electronic components and how they work.

Used the insert coin light as the switch and a Solid State Relay to control the Lock Out Coil.
Using all salvaged parts, Diodes to convert the 6 volt AC to 3 volts DC, Capacitor to smooth the cycle and 550 ohm resistor to drain the capacitor.
Lock Out Coil works as expected with no noticeable dimming to the Insert Coin Light.

Thanks to all who helped along the way and a special thanks to Mr. OldReno

Maybe one day I will solve the mystery of the backward working Lock Out Coil,
but it was great learning experience.

CVslots · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2015, 10:03:43 PM »

I do not do EM or E canines, but I will ask my husband and see what his input is. Something's stuck, like a relay or other component that I do not know the name of...

Roslyn

DavidLee · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:38:20 AM »

Roslyn,

Thank you for responding to the post.
These machines can be like a good mystery and finding problems keeps our minds active.
But sometimes we need a little outside help and any help would be appreciated.
The coil I'm referring to was missing when I got the machine. I found out why when I replaced it.
Someone prior couldn't find the problem that is apparent now.
They just pulled out the coil and its mechanism for a easy fix,, The machine will still work, but not properly.
I'm overlooking something and it might be very obvious when I find it or maybe not so obvious.
In this particular circuit there are a lot of switches and they all seem to be working except for the one like I described.
The coil should be energized so the first coin can cycle through and d-energize briefly between coins and that is not happening.

Dave

OldReno · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2015, 06:06:50 PM »

The coin lockout coil has no need to de-energize between coins. None, there is no purpose for it to do that, and it would require unnecessary circuitry.
The switches in the coin lockout circuit are:
Coin switch, Reel mech A, Reel mech C, Payout relay, Dashpot, Reel mech C3, (coin relay and line unit open at max odds switch -- these two are in parallel), (Jackpot release switch and Jackpot relay switch -- these two also in parallel). These parallel switches allow coin lockout coil to work after max coins, and during a jackpot after customer has been paid cash and it is time for him/her to playoff machine.
Most all machines are wired like this....
You should try pushing back on the handle before inserting the first coin, because MOST OFTEN the problem is the dashpot switch.

OldReno · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2015, 06:12:31 PM »

You are correct the coin lockout coil BRIEFLY turns off when the coin in switch is pushed down, but that is not a feature of the machine, it is just an unintended thing. Don't worry about that part of it, just follow out the switches I posted above.

Amechanic · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2015, 07:16:15 PM »

The coin lockout coin is there to keep a customer from inserting a coin too soon, and to keep them from inserting too many coins. If its doing that, then its working correct. My guess is someone removed it because it was noisy or buzzing when energized.. Easier to remove then to fix the problem.

Gary

DavidLee · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:03:25 PM »

Thanks for the info. Yes the coin lock out works fine during a play cycle, even holds durning a payout.
At the end of the cycle there is an open in the coin lockout circuit. As we know, causing the new game first coin to drop into the tray.
Mr. Oldreno, you mentioned pushing back on the handle and the daspot switch. If I give the handle a slight pull ( as in starting a new game cycle ) the coin lock out coil will energize.
I assumed it was the micro switch making a curcuit as it has the yellow red wire attached.
Please clarify handle direction, but in the meantime I'll check it out.

Amechanic · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2015, 01:36:28 AM »

I believe that OldReno wants you to make sure that your handle on the machine is fully returned to its upright position.. You have a blade switch contact located on the right side of the reels assembly just behind the air cylinder. Those are the contacts that he is refuring too.
Have you cleaned and greased the piston inside the air cylinder? If not it should be done. The rubber cup seal inside desolves and turns to a very sticky tar. That will prevent your handle from fully returning.

DavidLee · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2015, 08:40:04 AM »

First off a big apology for a mistake on my part. The coin lock out does not d-energize during a payout.
Sorry for unnecessarily spinning your reels. So need to check this out to see why this is working in reverse.
Hopefully it will solve the problem.
Regarding the handle and the the air cylinder piston cup seal. I replace the cup seal in this machine with a 15/16" brake cylinder cup.
Had to modify the seal by putting a 1/2" hole in the center, it wasn't the cleanest hole , but it works great. The part number on the cup is 3535
made in the USA, but no manufactures name. Will post a photo later.
So now the handle has just a little air cushion during operation. Compared to the machine I just added lubricant in place of the cup seal.
Now there is a noticeable difference between the machines regarding the handle operation.
Eventually I will get another seal to fix the other machine. The gummy seal in this machine was so bad the handle would not return without forcing it.
Well back to it.
Thanks again for all your help!

Amechanic · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2015, 09:41:42 AM »

If you need to put a 1/2" hole in the seal, you could make a hole punch out of a piece of 1/2" ID pipe. If you have a grinder you just need to grind the pipes outside at an angle till you have a sharp edge at the inside edge. Then center that in the cup seal and hit it with a hammer. It should cut you a round hole. You might even be able to buy a set of cheap punches used to make gaskets or punch hole in leather.

DavidLee · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2015, 11:32:09 AM »

My first thought was to use a grommet hole punch, but didn't want to buy one to punch 2 holes.
Pipe sounds better, maybe use 1/2" EMT conduit. Will try it when I get to the 1088 air cylinder.
Thanks for the tip.

ramegoom · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2015, 01:54:08 PM »

For the seal, I buy them in packs of 5 from McMaster-Carr, part number 9691K53. Here's the part:

Then with a small pair of flush side cutters, I perform surgery:

When the center is removed, it'll fit right in to the piston base:

DavidLee · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2015, 04:46:28 PM »

McMaster-Carr, they have a lot of stuff over a million or some crazy number of items.
Surprised they don't have a seal with the hole already in it.

Still working on the lock out coil situation. The whole circuit seems to be in tact as every switch is working during the cycle.
Except for the open at the end causing the coil to d-energize and diverting the first coin. After the first coin and the odds unit resets it works like normal. The last switch to activate is the C-3 and it opens at the very end of the
cycle. If a press the timing variation actuator in it closes the circuit, but then the circuit is closed until the handle is pulled thus allowing
more than a normal amount of coins into the hopper and not to the coin drop at all.

OldReno · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2015, 08:31:19 PM »

I'm confused.
The coin diverter is what directs coins either into the hopper or into the drop. It is operated by either a weight switch on the hopper bowl, or a wiffle ball type thingy.
The Coin Lockout is what allows the machine to accept coins.
Please help clear up the confusion here, are you worried about the diverter or the lockout???

DavidLee · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2015, 01:18:57 PM »

Concentrating on the coin lock out circuit. Sorry for any confusing information on my part.
Still looking for the reason why the lock out coil doesn't energize to accept the first coin.

Amechanic · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2015, 12:50:59 PM »

Your taking about the coil located right behind the coin acceptor? The divertor is located under the coin mech.

The Fatman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2015, 11:16:56 AM »

Very well could be a intermiitent connection on the molex plugs by the door hinge. Seen it before.
Dave F

DavidLee · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2015, 01:50:32 PM »

I'll check the plugs again, but been through the machine following the yellow/red wire a couple of times.
The circuit preforms normally through all functions except for energizing the coin lock out coil at the very end of a game cycle.
Thus rejecting coins to start a new game. Just got to keep digging and trace this wire back as I'm definitely missing something.

Thanks everyone for your valuable advise.

OldReno · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2015, 05:01:41 PM »

So a couple of questions on your lockout coil.
Does this occur when you only play one coin in the previous game?
When you move the handle (no coins inserted) can you hear the lockout coil click on and click off? You should be able to.
If you gently open the door (when you think the lockout is off) if you push on the little tab on the end of the lockout armature, do you feel any resistance?
Sometimes the adjust tab (on the door, not the armature) is opened up too much, and the armature will open too far for the coil to attract it.
If it is off, thump it on the door side with your fist and see if it works then.
And, again, are you sure your dashpot switch is closed?

DavidLee · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2015, 06:18:17 PM »

Thanks Mr. OldReno,

I will check the items you mentioned tomorrow. I might of overlook something.
But I know the handle switch works, I can hear it and if I want to play the machine from the outside
I just pull the handle a little, just enought to activate the coin lockout coil and drop in the first coin.
After that it works like it should, two more coins and then the coil d-energizes.

Same subject different idea.
I have a vacant white / black tracer wire I traced from where the door key lock would have been to a terminal block [size=78%]in the back of the machine. Also with this wire is the yellow / red tracer and its part of the coin lock out circuit. Both wires were cut and taped together, but not connected. If I hot wire it, the yellow / red it will activate the coin lock out coil. I was thing, if I could find a live wire just during the period between play cycles, I could make it work. This may be my best shot, as who knows how many transformations this machine has gone through.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Thanks for all your help.[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Dave[/size]

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Author Topic: Bally 1090 coin lock out d-energizing (Read 16896 times)