Author Topic: Bally 1090 coin lock out d-energizing (Read 16895 times)

Jon · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2015, 08:02:51 PM »

David pole the real machine out just for kicks for me and take a good picture of the airair solenoid switch that is supposed to deactivate not to be when you're pulling the handle I want to see what wires go to it and how it hooked up and what's going on

DavidLee · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2015, 03:53:51 PM »

Okay, here are photos of the three reel switches. (Maybe I should give up slot machines. Getting better results in photography.)
Everything seems to be in order, but haven't got another 1090 to compare with.
Could be something in the wrong position, maybe compare if you have a 1090.

Going to try and post a short 30 second video link if I can in the near future.
Also for comparison.

This is still in regards to the coin lock out coil.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Dave

DavidLee · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2015, 04:26:56 PM »

<a href="http://youtu.be/4nW2UECQWqo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/4nW2UECQWqo</a>

Above is a video of the coin lock out coil in action in conjunction to the C switch.
The machine is in the ready mode for the first coin all except for the coin lock out.
Please compare it if you have a 1090 in the 1976 range. I have a feeling it will do the exactly the opposite.
Why is the $64.00 ?

Amechanic · « **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2015, 04:43:49 PM »

Ok thanks for the pictures and video. Now if you could please take a pictures of the other side of the reels assembly. At the back end of your air cylinder, there should be a switch called the dash pot switch. That switch needs to be closing when the handle is in the up right position.

Gary

DavidLee · « **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2015, 08:54:09 AM »

Dash pot photos attached. Everything seems to be in order. Please view and advise as I might be overlooking something.

DavidLee · « **Reply #25 on:** June 24, 2015, 01:57:11 PM »

Like I said, must be overlooking something. Made the the mistake of assuming that the dash pot was in good working order.
As it appeared to be completely intact.
Reexamined the switch after receiving all of your guys replies to check the dash pot.
Found the Black yellow trace wire contact blade broke off just below the insulator.

DavidLee · « **Reply #26 on:** June 24, 2015, 04:20:02 PM »

Fixed the dash pot, but no change in the lock out coil situation.
Traced the wires through the reel mechanism, all good to male beauplug.
Will check the female side and beyond first chance.
Thought I had it there for a moment.

OldReno · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2015, 01:34:25 PM »

Ok, let's try this another way...here are the times the coin lockout coil should be off:
1. after inserting max coins
2. durning reel kick and spin
3. anytime the handle is pulled
4. during payouts.
5. during jackpots.
If it is on at any of these times, then you have a switch out of adjustment.
Did you every respond to reply #18?
Was this originally a $ machine? You know the lockout works opposite in dollar machines, and it is called a scavenger coil. If you have a conversion, it may have been originally a $ with the scavenger.
Have you tried turning the jackpot reset key before inserting 1st coin?

DavidLee · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2015, 02:35:58 PM »

Sorry for the late response, been busy with remodeling.
Okay, not sure if this was a $ machine before, but I think it was pieced together at one time.
The coin lock out coil stays energized during all payouts except for the "777". Then it oscillates, givining indication contacts out of adjustment as they work sometimes. Because it's "777" there is a lot of movement causing them to open sometimes. I think this where the problem lies, so I need to investigate and see why.
Hopefully it will be an easy adjustment and it will solve the overall situation.

Also there is no reset key.
Or wires that I can see that would connect to a reset switch if there was one.
Will double check for wires cut and taped.
I have another machine and it does have the reset switch located near the handle hub.
One of the wires is a yellow / red trace connected to it.

Maybe get to next week.

Thanks again for your help.

Dave

DavidLee · « **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »

Made a couple of videos in between working on the machine. Not sure how they will post!

<a href="http://youtu.be/VU0X0eOSbkY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/VU0X0eOSbkY</a>

<a href="http://youtu.be/2SNmnrPFhV4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/2SNmnrPFhV4</a>

Jon · « **Reply #30 on:** July 13, 2015, 05:11:04 PM »

well Dave it looks like both videos you posted our private nobody can view them

DavidLee · « **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2015, 06:43:38 PM »

Hello John,

I chanced the settings, so hopefully anyone with the link can view the videos.
Let me know if you can or can not see the videos.

Thanks for the Beau Plug, I got some cable from Apex Electronics surplus 70 cents a foot.
Made a 6 foot test cable.
Ran the hopper on the bench to see how the payout relay was working.

Amechanic · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2015, 06:58:51 PM »

I've getting the same thing.. Private.

Jon · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2015, 07:02:10 PM »

I am still getting it to Gary hey Gary how do I ship this bezal to you I think you sent me your address
remember I don't know how to ship things

OldReno · « **Reply #34 on:** July 15, 2015, 11:42:26 AM »

Once again...here are the times the coin lockout coil should be off:
1. after inserting max coins
2. during reel kick and spin
3. anytime the handle is pulled
4. during payouts.
5. during jackpots.
I tried watching your last video, but my connection is sloow.
Some things I did notice...
Your lockout is ON during reel spin. It should not be.
Your lockout is ON during payouts. It should not be.
If the little tab is poking through the hole in the coin acceptor, then the lockout is OFF. it will not take coins then.
I am guessing this was once a dollar machine, and someone converted it to a smaller denom, and did not do a good job at it.

I note that some machines have a coin lockout relay that controls the clo coil itself, but have not worked on (m)any of those.
Here are the typical switches you will find on a non-dollar machine, working backwards from the coin lockout coil itself...
Coin lockout coil starts with 70 wire, which is 50V feed. other side of coin lockout coil should be a 31 wire, which should go to-----
1. coin relay switch (left side reel mech) 31 to 58 wires (NC) which is run in parallel with the open at max odds switch (on your odds disc) also 31 to 58 wire.
2. dashpot switch (behind pump arm) 58 to 51 (NC) Opens to kill lockout during handle pull
3. reel mech C3 (left side reels) 51 to 57 (NC) Opens to kill lockout until reels index.
4. payout relay switch (hopper) (2 way switch) 57 to 60, (NC-opens to kill lockout during pays)
5. reel mech C1 switch (left side reels) 60 to 71, (NC opens during reel kick, closes after last reel indexes)
6. reel mech A switch (left side reels) 71 to 74 (NC)
7. Coin in switch on door 74 to 30 wire.
In a TYPICAL machine, that's the wiring.
If you can trace these out, it may help you. Some wiring colors MAY be different, but at least you know where they should go, and can draw out your own schematic to share with us.... Or not.
What color wire is currently (no pun) wired onto your lockout coil, other than the 70 wire?

OldReno · « **Reply #35 on:** July 15, 2015, 11:46:02 AM »

Something else to consider--
The coin lockout coil acts just like the insert coin light.
It should only be on when you are supposed to insert coins.
You cannot insert coins during handle pull, reel spin or pays, OR after max coins until handle is pulled and machine cycles.

DavidLee · « **Reply #36 on:** July 15, 2015, 01:52:46 PM »

Thanks Mr. Reno,

I agree, this machine is a bit of a mutt. Thanks for taking the time again on laying out the wiring pertaining to the lock out coil.

Yes its working in reverse during a game cycle, it should be d-energized to divert the coins.
I've considered wiring the lock out coil in conjunction with the insert coin light.
Also considered using a C-R relay as possibility of reversing the action of the coil during the time its not working correctly.
I've seen machines with them in the door and they are wired into the lock out circuit.
But haven't paid much attention to them.
The other wire on the coil is the 31 yellow red rings, the wire in the video is different as the original 31 was cut short when the
coil was previously removed due to the problem that now exists.

Will try to draw a wiring schematic pertaining to the lock coil on this machine using your guide line, an old schematic and the ohm meter.

Thanks again

Dave

DavidLee · « **Reply #37 on:** July 15, 2015, 07:58:14 PM »

Okay, traced all wires, but drawing needs to be refined.
On item number 1. coin relay switch (NC) I assume its when the machine is at ease, ready for the first coin.
The way its set up now the contacts are open before the first coin, then close as the latch is released.
I'll post a couple of photos as to get a better idea of what is going on.

One photo posted, but not the other. Will try again in the AM when I'm more alert.

OldReno · « **Reply #38 on:** July 15, 2015, 08:20:30 PM »

Your switches in the photo look correct, HOWEVER, I cannot see the wire connections clearly, but the switch action looks good. Wires may be reversed. Is there any indication of new soldering on any of them?
BTW, do not wire up your lockout coil to the insert coin light.
The lite runs at 6V, the coil is at 50V.
Same idea, different voltages.
You could install a small encapsulated relay to reverse the signal to lockout coil.
In other words, when coil is on, the lockout goes off. and reverse is true. Just wire the coil onto a NC switch on the relay, and wire the new relay coil to the existing wire that went the the lockout coil itself. This will revers its operation. But keep looking, you will probably find a switch out of adjustment somewhere, perhaps even in the jackpot relay area, around where the odds disc is. I did do a troubleshooting guide on adjusting switches, and it is somewhere in the sticky area if you look.
Anyway, the coin relay switches above look correct.... You can of course ohm them, but I'd look elsewhere...

DavidLee · « **Reply #39 on:** July 15, 2015, 09:20:37 PM »

Thanks for the info.

Payout relay switch from left to right, yellow wires next is the white black trace 58 and soforth.
Reversing relay sounds like a good idea, will look into it.
Re 6 volts verses 50 volts, would need to use a C-R type relay I imagine.
Hope to have some time in the morning to work on the machine.
Will post any progress.

Thanks again
Dave

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Author Topic: Bally 1090 coin lock out d-energizing (Read 16895 times)