Bally Gold Rush - Runaway Hopper

[GOS]

i would say it is one of the relays on the hopper pictured - either the one at the front - or the one under the bowl.  since i don't have a wire diagram for this machine - i know on an 809 the wiring was from the reel mech wiper board.  just enough of a kick to move the coins.

[Amechanic]

i would say it is one of the relays on the hopper pictured - either the one at the front - or the one under the bowl.  since i don't have a wire diagram for this machine - i know on an 809 the wiring was from the reel mech wiper board.  just enough of a kick to move the coins.

Ok. That I seem to remember now. If you landed on a certain blank on reel one, if I am remembering correctly, the hopper would stir on my 809 JPO🤔.

[big_e]

YES!  OK we are getting somewhere.....  OK the one under the bowl pulses on and off as the micro switch closes on the ratchet cog for the pay board.  This then resets the safety timer every few clicks.  I think on a continental this is called a delay relay, you can see contacts in the schematic I posted above for the continental.  The one on the front turns on the motor for the hopper.  I can press this down and close the contacts any time the door is open and the hopper starts turning.  So this mixing relay comes on when there is a pay, and also when a certain blank comes up on reel 1.  (It explains why my continental occasionally runs the hopper and no coins come out.  Now what starts and stops it.... I dont know.  I dont have a schematic.)
Remember I said that this mixer relay has orange/blue on the wire that goes to the contacts on the pay relay.  When they close it gets power to pull in the relay.  There are two wires that are orange/blue.  One goes to the contacts on the pay relay, and the other appears to be disconnected from the bull plug and capped off.  See I think that someone at one time tried to fix this with no luck.  Maybe they thought the mixing relay was getting a signal down from the reel mech and so the cut it from the hopper plug.  You can see this capped off wire below.

[DavidLee]

Never had a machine with a coin mixer circuit, so not real familiar on how it is regulated.
But my first thought was it might be activated by a non paying combination of symbols like B-C-7.

Wire nuts and taped connections are good clues that need to be investigated.
Follow the wires under the wire nut as to eliminate a combination type problem.
 
Still thinking, follow the White/blue wire from the motor back into the machine.
As whatever activates the motor has to energize the 52 wire. (Your motor wire color may vary.)

Payout counter micro cam switch and hopper cut off relay explained. See attachment.

[Amechanic]

Take that wire but loose and see if it was cut. You should be able to locate where it was connected. It can’t be any farther then the wire will reach in any direction. Check the back of the hopper plug too.

[big_e]

Take that wire but loose and see if it was cut. You should be able to locate where it was connected. It can’t be any farther then the wire will reach in any direction. Check the back of the hopper plug too.

I have taken the wire nut off, and the wire is stripped back and glazed with solder.  There is also ONE pin on the plug that is missing a wire and it reaches nicely.  I am nearly certain this comes from the reel mech above.  But this wouldn't necessarily cause this issue.  I think I need to trace the other wire on the coil of the mixer relay and see where it goes.  Up until now I have tried to keep all the wiring clean and bundled like it is.  But I am so frustrated I am going to cut the wire bundle apart so I can trace it.  See if it only goes to the pins on the pay relay.
Lets say it only goes to the pay relay.  How could this still act like this?  How could the pay relay drop out, the other contacts all drop out and perhaps other contacts make, but this one it holds on for 10 seconds..... maybe 30 seconds before it breaks? 

E

[Amechanic]

Double check your hoppers cabinets mating plug to see if it has the same colored wire on the back of that female beau plug. If it is, you could try tracing that wire to its source.

[big_e]

Double check your hoppers cabinets mating plug to see if it has the same colored wire on the back of that female beau plug. If it is, you could try tracing that wire to its source.

OK I will try that, but could that help with my issue?  Could connecting this wire somehow help stop the hopper sooner?

[GOS]

delay relay is not the issue - the mixer under the bowl is - find out what wires go to it and chase them - the delay is only to unsure that the payout counter is incrementing - chasing cut wires "maybe" a clue but concentrate on the mixer relay!!

[big_e]

OK guys thank you for all your help.  Good news is that we fixed it!  Bad news is that it was something very simple, and stupid.  I completely torn the hopper down traced all wires and found no issues.  With power off I tapped the mixer relay a few times and one time it stuck, on its own, no power.  SO I tore it apart and found that on top of the coil was something gummy and sticky.  All I did was clean it thoroughly, and it now works perfectly.
Love this board and all the help.  Sorry I dont have a more interesting solution.  I am grateful however.
On to the next project... Bally Big Prize rework.....
E

[Amechanic]

Nice find. It doesn’t take too much for a coil to stick. That could be dirt from just all the coins that have run through the hopper over the years.

[DavidLee]

Set up a 18 coin payout, observer the cut out relay front bottom of the hopper. Orange/orange-green wire.
If it pulls in/activates during the payout and it stays activated after the payout, pry the metal armature away from the coil. Use something like a popsicle stick. Observer how the hopper reacts.
This may narrow down the search and or give some direction.


I see the coin diverter and motor are powered by two different circuits. Gray/yellow and White/blue wires.
Both most likely coming from the payout relay and linked together with a common silver wire.


Check to see if the spring is present on the payout coil armature plate. Had a hopper continue to run because of a missing spring.

[Amechanic]

David.

He found to problem. Read reply 29.

Gary

[DavidLee]

Thanks Gary,


Learn two things, check for sticky grim between the coil core and armature plate.
And read the previous post before continuing to reply.
Overall it was a good learning experience.