Going from Fam14 to Fam20 on a G23 SMLD machine

[sccarlso]

For the "Family 20" experienced.   

I currently have a G23 SMLD with a 660 box, works great!   But I'm considering giving family 20 a try.

I didn't find a FAQ or anything on going from 14 to 20.

The upside of course is more detailed games.  I'm not overly concerned with going back and forth between fam14 and 20.  But a few questions I haven't found clear answers for.

1.  Is there anything deeper involved other than switching to fam 20 show boots, full wipe of NVRAM, SafeStorage, and SSD, and reloading with a Fam20 OS & Fam20 games?
2.  If I did want to switch back to fam14, is it the same process?  Replace boots, full wipe, reload (or replace SSD with a fam 14 loaded one?)  Or is it more involved?
3.  Are there certain Fam20 game titles that require different or added hardware other than what my machine currently has?  Other than if the title requires physical reels or a UC/IPC?

I saw there were posts on a few issues with the BV and printers, but those should be fixable.

If you know all about a fam20 setup, or have switched your machine from a fam14 to a fam20 setup.   Your thoughts and experiences are valuable info! 

Thanks!

[RB]

1. You are pretty spot on except you need the Ascent foundation in addition to the OS as well as an Ascent diagnostic.

2. All good. Use Family 14 diagnostic for this. Ekey000007 works for either.

3. Yes certain games will require a dynamic player panel for full function. 009 games are for Crystal curve and will not work on dual screen
    machines. There will be trial and error situations with some games but it's easy to remove a problem game with the diag without losing
    the previous setup. It won't disable all games like Family 14 does.

[sccarlso]

I'd probably just switch brainboxes as I have an extra one.

Have the other files mentioned, so should be good there too.

Not fun swapping a boot1 chip, have to be careful!  So with one box a fam20, then all good.  Sounds like I won't blow anything out.  And easier by using another 660 box, and reverting if desired is easier by just clearing and putting the fam14 brainbox back in.

Many thanks!!!   It's something I'll have to try out on a cold rainy weekend!

[RobinAK]

Ive never ran family 20 on G23 but others have. Some have reported game play lag & sound issues. I was going to go the G23 route then saw that others were switching back to 14. I opted to get crystal dual machine. No regrets at all. This way I have both 14 and 20. There are some games on 14 I want to be able to play. That being said, I do play both machines all the time. However the crystal gets most of my attention.   

[a69mopar]

If your printer is usb, and your bv is usb (id 028 for jcm), then they should work fine.   I'd 024 won't work as it uses netplex serial.  Note : Gen2 universal printers need the proper usb version of firmware to function through usb.
To me these aren't really an issue. A crystal sure would be nice though. 

Thanks,
Wayne

[sccarlso]

I know my printer is USB.

Have to check if the BV is too.

If the BV isn’t USB, what’s the easiest fix for a fam20?
Does it reject all?  Or just bills as I use a Tito.

[sccarlso]

Just checked.  Pretty funny!

My std screen machine has a USB printer but not the BV.  My SMLD machine has a USB BV, but the ticket printer is Netplex connected.  But it's a gen2 universal printer with USB as well.

I also have a spare USB printer that will work in either machine.  So shouldn't be a prob to set the SMLD to use USB for the printer.  And if that caused any hassle, I could just swap the spare USB printer into it.

Didn't want to deal with the BV though!  lol   Just did a quick look and didn't note the exact model number.  I'll have to check the BV model number on my std machine that's USB as they look the same in each machine at a glance, if they're the same model number, it should have USB as well on the other and it's just connected with Netplex currently. 

Thanks!   

[a69mopar]

Gen2U printers communcation is determined by the firmware flashed on it. Print a test ticket and it will show. Attached is one with usb firmware.  Similar for bill validators. A UBA14 can be either 024 or o28 protocol (and others),  024 is serial netplex,  028 is usb.

Thanks,
Wayne

[sccarlso]

I'll compare what a test ticket prints on mine.  My other two are Ithica 950s with both netplex/usb. 

They had some generic firmware when I got them. But I flashed them both with IGT USB firmware & tested them with my machines.
But would be nice to not have to swap one of em!      At least it's relatively easy to swap compared to other components! 

USB makes things so much easier!  Thanks for the pic! 

[sccarlso]

One more likely trivial question. 

I'm assuming that the gameID naming scheme in fam20 is the same as fam14?  001-005, with the 009's being Crystal Curve titles?

Don't want the fun of misloading!  lol

Thanks!

[Yoeddy1]

I went through it all…all of it.  RobinAK is correct.  If you want smooth audio and video, FAM14 will give you that in your G23.  If you want FAM20, go with a Crystal Core.  Choppy sound and video make me insane, so I stick to FAM14 in my G23.

Thanks,
Jason

[RB]

One more likely trivial question. 

I'm assuming that the gameID naming scheme in fam20 is the same as fam14?  001-005, with the 009's being Crystal Curve titles?

Don't want the fun of misloading!  lol

Thanks!

Yes the naming conventions are pretty much the same.

[sccarlso]

Hmmm, loading a fam20 to a clean SSD is a little trickier than a fam14....

But I have a clean 660 brainbox, blank SSD, and the fam20 boots are in.  I cleared NVRAM and SafeStorage before removing my 014 brainbox.
Both my printer and BV are USB!  Yay

Machine boots ok, but I'm not clear on the OS load process. 

The first thing that's stopping me is that a fam14 diag key won't work here.  lol   I got "no bootable devices found".

But I did have a .vhd file for DIAGUNV00122 that I had from way back.  Never needed it, might be in a pile of flash drives, but can't find it now.
Does it need to be a specific brand of flash drive?  By the image size it's an 8GB flash drive.

Assuming I can boot with the restored USB flash drive...   I'm assuming I would do the same as with a 014 and do a triple wipe, and reboot with the OS loader and ekey7 in to load the OS as well as the Ascent loader file.

There aren't any youtube vids that I'm aware of on loading from scratch on a fam20 as far as I know, just fam14's.

But I know I need the OS, and Ascent files.  But I'm not familiar with the naming structure of fam20 loaders.  I read that you can load the OS, and then the Ascent files afterwards.
But if I can load both at the same time from the same usb, that's easier!

For example, I have a set of fam20 loader files.   The "newest" OS I have is OI0200200603, but I also have smaller ones ending in 508 and 404.  I little more than 2GB for 404, 5GB for 508, and 6.5GB for 603.   For the Ascent loader, the newest I have is AI020000L0003.  As with any OS loader files, the newer the version the larger they get. But not as much on the Ascent files as the fam20 OS loaders.

Following basic AVP loading.   Can these both be on the same flash drive, then boot with the ekey in, along with a clean fat32 formatted usb with both the OI0200200603 and AI020000L0003 files on usb to load the OS and Ascent files?  Or do I need to put OI0200200603 on a flash by itself to install the OS, and then put AI020000L0003 on a flash by itself and load that once the OS is loaded?

Also since I have different series of OS loaders for fam20, do I need to remain on a lower version OS or Ascent file since it's a G23 and not just load the latest?

Any example of loader name ID's and sequence of loading would be really helpful!   Or if I'm missing anything critical about the process that will stop me cold. 

One of those things where it's easy after you've done it once.  But the first time, without a guide of some kind, it's kinda sketchy!  Or if I'm just blind and there is some kind of guide to loading a fam20 from blank, please point me as I wasn't able to find anything fam20 specific.   Just general AVP fam14 information.

Thanks for any advice!

[sccarlso]

Ha, well found "most" of the info I was looking for in an old post.

You will need:
* 3.0ME brainbox ( i.e. 660- 4 GB memory, SSD, E4690 Dual DVI video card)
* DIAGUNV00104 diagnostic utility or higher (blue Kangaroo drive)
* IBRF300USDM07 or higher boot chips 1 and 2
* OI020- Operation system (i.e OI0200000302 or higher)
* AI020- Ascent Foundation ( i.e AI020000C0006 or higher)
* GI020- Game program ( i.e GI020002NI3B001)
* Trusty Ekey 7
* GI020 compatible license dongle
* Patience

So I guess that just leaves me with the OS and Ascent versions.  If they can be loaded at the same time, and the best OS version.

Since it's not an AVP 4.0.   And there are OSs that are older, at 1.7GB, then a major rev and it's 4GB, and then 6.5GB.

I'm thinking that I shouldn't load the latest that is 6.5GB, but not the oldest either, and go with the OS that's about 4GB as I'm thinking the smaller OS might not bog it down as much as the larger ones.

Any OS version someone might recommend over the other when on a 3.0 brainbox?

Thanks!

[Retro tech repair]

I am who originally found the 3.0 show boots for family 20. I run family 20 on my 660 in a trimline and have not experienced the sound and video lagging issues people talk about. There are a lot if games that i cant run being on a trimline but games like farmers daughter, zillion gators and ocean magic have ran fine for me with no issues

[sccarlso]

Good info.  My fam14 runs pretty well.  I got a big box of usb loaders when I bought my first AVP with OSs, games, etc.  The guy I got the machine from gave me a package deal & said “have fun”, and haven’t heard from him since, lol   But it was a bargain for someone with their first AVP not knowing all they might need.

Most were fam14.   But there were some fam20s.  Didn’t pay much attention as I wasn’t aware I could even use them on that machine at the time since I only understood fam14 & the ID numbering was completely different.

But I’ve had too many flash drives fail or get lost.  Always seems to be the important ones that do! 

I always know where my ekey is!  But the rest that are used only once get put away.

So I back up everything I can that’s not easily replaced & burn the files to an archive on DVD and stuff it away. 

I should have kept a box with “everything AVP” so I’m not hunting for numerous small boxes in the garage!  Doh!  Tools get lost in there!   And I end up buying another when I can’t find it when I need it! 

Then the wife makes me clean the garage a year later and I find it!  I can’t be the only one that has that experience! 

Now that I know basically what is for what, I have this cobbled together mix & match that’s probably incomplete.  Mainly fam14 so I wasn’t sure if I had all that I needed to load a working fam20.   

Might not be as good with the limited power of a 660, but just want to give it a try. 

I’m actually loving the 42” top screen mod for a tall box.  😁   Even rotated I think it’s better than the std G23 top screen.  Very eye catching! 

So will have to see how it comes out.  Worst case, just switch back & might get a crystal curve down the road.  Nice machines!  But they’re still pretty spendy.

[The laneman]

How do you get power to your USB gen2 universal ?
Ive never used a USB printer before.

[a69mopar]

Through the other/serial cable.  Connects like a gen2, plus the USB connects.

[The laneman]

Thanks

Will this printer work on Fam 14 games also?

[a69mopar]

Yes