Author Topic: S+ slant top flourescent lights but no display (Read 6759 times)

slug54 · « **on:** July 07, 2016, 03:09:54 PM »

Hello Everyone,
I have a slant top five times pay that I don't get anything on the display. I know this can be a common issue with some S+ slots but most of the info I have seen on this problem are stand up machines with a different looking power supply and harness. I was hoping to get some guidance on finding the issue with the machine.
Thanks
-Jeff

rokgpsman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2016, 03:22:28 PM »

Since the fluorescent lights and their ballast are pretty much wired directly to the 115vac input power line they usually work even if nothing else does. Do you mean the machine works but the display doesn't?

If you mean the machine is dead, nothing works then here's what I'd do. Even though it is a slant top machine there is still maybe a power supply connector that connects to a motherboard that can have overheated or burned contacts. This happens enough on the S+ type machines that it should be looked for when you have a problem like you are describing. There could also be blown fuses, broken fuse holder, other things. So a good inspection is always called for when you get a machine that is new to you, plus you may find some coins or other stuff in there somewhere.

Look in the lower area, find the mpu board (main logic circuit board). If it is plugged into another interconnect board (called the motherboard) then look for a power cable that is connected to the motherboard. Unplug it and inspect front and back, see if its white plastic connector housing is darkened from a burned contact. Post photos of anything you aren't sure about.

Look for any connector that is burned like this:

slug54 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2016, 03:59:15 PM »

Thanks for the quick response and great info!
The machine is dead and nothing works and the display is dark. I did have the display come on one time in the couple days I've been messing with it and it came up with a 62 code. It has only done that once in the many times I have powered it on, after powering it off the display is dark again.
I will give the connectors a close inspection tomorrow they are really tough to get a good look at through the bottom door. I may see if the tray with the reels comes out easily so I can get a better look at the connections from the top.
The machine has never worked since I have owned it and was given to me as a free project machine.
I will report back and let you know what I find.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2016, 04:13:02 PM »

Slants can be a pain to work on and to move, they are heavy!

On some slant tops you can lower or remove the front part of the cabinet, then get down there with a good light to see and check things. Even if you have to remove brackets or other things it may be worthwhile to get better access to the lower area. That's better than trying to lean down from above. Just watch that the top doesn't fall while you are in the way. Otherwise you lift up the top deck (like the hood on a car) to work on it.

It's probably a good idea to remove the mpu (main logic board) to check for battery leakage damage, missing chips, etc. Post a photo of it and we can tell you more about your game and its software. The battery on the mpu board is likely dead, will need to be replaced.

Also post photos of your machine when you can, we don't get to see a lot of slant tops and it's good for everyone to learn more. Thanks!

There are others here on NLG with much more knowledge and experience on your machine than I have, so keep asking any questions you may have, someone will be able to help.

Here's a good list of the error codes you may encounter:

http://www.ohiogaming.com/igterrorcodestroubleshooting.htm

slug54 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2016, 02:11:35 PM »

Here are a few pics of the machine.
It is really a rats nest of cables and connectors at this point.
I did find one connector that goes to the main board burnt. I am going to try to replace the pin on this connector tonight and clean up the mating pin.
I am also going to get her cleaned up and vacuumed out and get the cable harnesses under control. I forgot to take a pic of the MPU board but I did have a pic of the Eproms.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2016, 06:46:27 PM »

You might have found your machine's main problem, that burnt connector contact looks very similar to what we've seen before. Was it plugged into the motherboard, a smaller circuit board that the mpu plugs into vertically?

As you get it running you can get some tie-wraps (plastic ties) from someplace like Harbor Freight and tie up the cable harnesses and wiring to make it look neater.

Quote from: slug54 on July 08, 2016, 02:11:35 PM

.....I am also going to get her cleaned up and vacuumed out.....

Watch for any stray $100 bills getting sucked up by that vacuum.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2016, 06:59:07 PM »

Here is more info about your machine. The chip marked "7902" is the REEL Prom, its full name is SS7902. It is 3 Line, 5 Times Pay game software. This chip sets the payback percentage for the player to about 94%. You can replace this chip with another SS chip with a different payback percentage if you want to, but yours is already the highest one.

Here is the SS7902 page from the NLG resource:

http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%203%20Line/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Five%20Times%20Pay%20(3%20Line).htm

The other chip that is marked "SP731" is called your GAME Prom. This is the chip that controls what options, preferences settings and other setup parameters you have. There is a little white pushbutton inside the machine somewhere, usually near the master power switch or power supply and fuses. That white button lets you get into the machine's setup menu and change certain settings. Sometimes you can upgrade to a newer SP chip and get more options for your machine, the other folks here can tell you about that, I'm not familiar enough with your machine.

Thanks for the photos, please post the mpu photos when you can. And don't forget to check the battery on the mpu board to see if it needs replacing, should be higher than 3.0 volts, max is 3.6 volts. Also make sure there is no battery leakage on the board. Since the mpu board stands vertically look for battery leakage around the battery and below, toward the board connectors when it is standing upright.

Just in case you haven't seen one of these mpu batteries, it typically looks something like the one below, they are made by many different companies. They are as big around as a normal AA battery but only half as long. They are soldered to the mpu board unless someone has added a battery holder.

slug54 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2016, 02:27:23 AM »

I replaced the burnt pin on the connector and cleaned the mating pins. That pin was the 7 and 8 Volt AC common. and that connector is the one that plugs into the main board/back plane.
Still nothing on the display.I measured the voltages on that connector and the 7 VAC, 8 VAC and 24 VAC are all there. One thing did happen after changing the pin, I now have tension on the reels and they bump a little bit when I power up now which they were not doing before.
I pulled the MPU board and attached a couple pics. I measured the battery voltage and it was completely dead 0V but there were no signs of leakage and the board was clean. I noticed that pin 15 on the SP731 appeared to be broken so I pulled the chip. The pin looks like it was broken off in the past and someone soldered a new pin onto the broken stub. I read it into my eprom programmer and it read with a check sum of F823, Not sure if that is correct or not. I think my plan for today is to put some clip leads on the MPU board so that I can get a meter reading on the MPU board to see if I am getting +5 V on it and if not I am going to check to see if the AC voltages are making it through the main board and to the MPU board.
I will report back with the results.
-Jeff

Shaggy · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2016, 05:10:53 AM »

It's late in the game and might be moot but have you checked fuses to make sure they are all good. The bump and stiffened reels is going in the right direction. I was reading about some other machines having similar problems, don't have a spare 10mhz board to swap MPUs do you?

Dave

slug54 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2016, 05:21:37 AM »

Hey Dave,
I checked the fuses with a meter and they are all good. the first fuse holder if jiggled kills the lights and everything for a sec so I'm going to check to see if it's a bad or corroded fuse holder. I have some upright slots that probably do have a 10mhz board but I took a quick look and it didn't look like I could just pop it in without removing the circuit boards and re-mounting on the slant top MPU board tray. I could be wrong but it didn't look quite right.If I need to I can do it but just not a quick plug and go.
-Jeff

cowboygames · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2016, 06:22:02 AM »

Have you changed that dead battery? A low battery throws a 12 code, a dead battery can kill the machine. That and a broken leg on a chip, but the game won't work till both are repaired

Shaggy · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2016, 06:23:18 AM »

Jeff, yeah you'll probably have to change the plate. My thoughts are, don't even change the chips. Change the board and plug it in. If it fires up you've found the problem. Granted the reels and such aren't going to line up but if it maiden spins and comes to life, then a chip change could rule out where the problem is. Things I would do if I had it here. And we can't rule out the mother board (backplane) either. You're on the right track. Those MPUs only have a few screws in them. I would try a board swap and see what happens. Then as Cowboy said change the battery etc.

Dave

slug54 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2016, 01:46:28 PM »

Thanks guys great info.
Yes, I already replaced the dead battery and tried it. Same result, reels bump and have tension but blank displays.
I put my meter on the MPU board and confirmed that I have a rock solid 5 VDC on the MPU. I also confirmed that all the voltages on the suspect connector were making it onto the MPU board so I think that connection is good and board is getting 5V power to the logic.
At that point I swapped in the board from a RWB slot without changing the roms. I powered it up 5 times and every time the displays came on!
It did have an error each time it was a 65 error, I think it was 65-2 but it could have been 65-1. I made no attempt to clear that error since the board had to go back to another machine. With the displays powering on 5 times in a row it looks like I need a new MPU board. I'm going to inspect the MPU board closely and see if I can find anything else bad. If not I'm going to check one of the vendors on this site for an MPU board.
The eprom with the repaired leg read okay in my burner so it doesn't look like the chip is bad. I will let you know how it goes.
-Jeff

slug54 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2016, 03:42:41 PM »

Hey Everyone,
I picked up a replacement MPU board and installed it. The display comes on every time now so the board replacement definitely fixed that.
I am getting a 62-1 error which I looked up an appears to be a bad data (reel) eprom. Can I swap the reel eprom with the chip from my RWB slot just to see if it clears the error? If it does I could just order a replacement chip. Also there are a couple jumpers near the epoms and I am not sure about how they should be set.
thanks.
-Jeff

Shaggy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2016, 04:43:46 PM »

Quote from: slug54 on July 14, 2016, 03:42:41 PM

Hey Everyone,
I picked up a replacement MPU board and installed it. The display comes on every time now so the board replacement definitely fixed that.
I am getting a 62-1 error which I looked up an appears to be a bad data (reel) eprom. Can I swap the reel eprom with the chip from my RWB slot just to see if it clears the error? If it does I could just order a replacement chip. Also there are a couple jumpers near the epoms and I am not sure about how they should be set.
thanks.
-Jeff

Here's a link to clearing the error code and other codes on an S+

Sorry misread the post. Go to the game bible on the S+ page and check both machines for like numbers. I don't know for sure but if the wrong chip is in it may give you a mismatch error. Never done that one.

rokgpsman · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2016, 08:05:36 PM »

The jumpers near the eproms are for different capacity (memory size) of eproms, like for 256k or 512k eproms. I wouldn't change them unless you are sure they need to be.

knagl · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2016, 12:13:13 AM »

Quote from: slug54 on July 14, 2016, 03:42:41 PM

Can I swap the reel eprom with the chip from my RWB slot just to see if it clears the error? If it does I could just order a replacement chip.

Yes, you can put a different REEL ("SS") chip in there. Once you get the machine up and running, of course the payouts won't match the reel strips, but yes, you can certainly put a different chip in there for testing purposes. To that end, putting known good chips in for testing at this point is a good idea. As we can see in your picture in Reply #4, those are obviously not original IGT chips, and possibly could be corrupt.

Quote

Also there are a couple jumpers near the epoms and I am not sure about how they should be set.

As rokgpsman said above, the jumpers tell the board what size EPROMs are installed. If you have your old, broken MPU board, look to see how the jumper(s) were set on that and compare it to your new board. You won't damage anything by trying a different jumper setting for the GAME or REEL sockets -- it just won't work if it's set incorrectly.

slug54 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2016, 02:43:25 AM »

When I got my replacement board I matched the jumpers on my old board. Since someone was trying to repair this before me I don't know if the jumpers had been changed by someone. I will try a known good reel chip and see what happens. I did read the reel chip in my programmer and got a checksum of 7036 but I don't know if that's correct or if it's corrupted.

slug54 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2016, 02:45:27 PM »

Ok, I moved the reel eprom from a Red White and Blue into my machine and it fixed the 62-1 error it then went to a 61 and then 61-1 error which all were able to be cleared. It now powers up and does a maiden spin with the RWB reel eprom installed. So I will be ordering a replacement eprom to fix this. The coins just pass right through the coin comparator and are rejected but I am going to open a new topic for that. So I am calling this issue resolved and I want to thank everyone for helping me get this repaired.
-Jeff

Shaggy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2016, 02:52:53 PM »

Good deal, so you had a bad board AND a bad eprom. Wow double trouble. Glad you got it.

Dave

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Author Topic: S+ slant top flourescent lights but no display (Read 6759 times)