Bally 1114 3-coin coin reject issue.

[shortrackskater]

so ... please say you determined the white/brown/green wire connections with a continuity tester

Yes! I used my continuity meter. 
More answers to come. Work day today, unfortunately.

[wolftalk]

so ... please say you determined the white/brown/green wire connections with a continuity tester

Yes! I used my continuity meter. 

the curse of continuity :-)

problem is what does continuity mean to the tool you are using.  On a lot of multimeters, the buzzer will buzz if the resistance between the two probes is less than something like 20-50 ohms.

if you have one probe on wire 18-2 and the insert coil lamp is installed, only the lamp resistance is in the path to wire 20.  From wire 20, only the transformer winding is in the path to wire 70.  Both those things together are a low resistance and the buzzer buzzes.

it's better to use ohms ... or on most meters that buzz at least look at the ohms reading when it's buzzing: 

- if it's more than a couple ohms, you are probably reading a circuit path through low resistance devices like lamps, the transformer and many coils and you should probably treat it as not having continuity. 

- if it's less than a couple ohms, you're pretty safe to conclude your two probes are on stuff connected together by a wire.

the other option is to make sure the circuit is isolated.  In this case, remove the lamp.  Since the reel mech is out, you don't have to worry about isolating the reel mech C-2 end of wire 18-2.

does the insert coin light work correctly?  It should be on unless you've inserted 3 coins, the reels are spinning or the game is paying.

[shortrackskater]

Update on the hopper reel left side connector:
My meter does have the reading. I just didn't look. In the process of this, I realized I wasn't holding my probe firm enough inside the connecter. I found two more points of contact.
Top row, left reads .3Ω
Top row, right reads 1.8Ω
Middle row left reads 1Ω
Bottom row right reads 0Ω

The insert coin light works as it should. After three the light goes out as it should.
I have more readings to take I believe...

[wolftalk]

the bottom/right pin in your pic should be pin 3 (on the reel mech plug, not the hopper :-)).  That's wire 30.

seems like an awkward place to tap onto wire 30 ... maybe they had that plug out for some other reason.

you've either got a pretty good meter or you zeroed out the resistance of the probe leads, so the low readings on other pins are just lamp filament, transformer winding and switch contact resistances.

so the green/red/white wire is providing "ground" to the relay coil and all the blue wires on the relay are switching the flasher in/out of the wire 20 to flash all the lamps/bell.

the orange wire connections to the relay are still odd.  If the orange wire(s) on the right side of the relay partially hidden by the wiring harness are connected to two lugs on the relay socket, then I'd guess that when the door opens, the relay powers and the lights flash.  Closing the door wouldn't turn off the light flashing because the relay is now keeping itself powered, so the only way to turn off the flashing is turn off the game power.

it would effectively be a "someone opened the door" alarm that doesn't turn off when the door switch is closed.

in any case, it doesn't look like that relay is interacting with your coin lockout coil.  You could remove the entire relay assembly, the green/red/white wire, the orange wire to the terminal strip and the orange wire to the fuse and it shouldn't make a difference to the game function assuming you reconnect the game blue wire back to the fuse.

however, I'd leave the relay in there for the moment as you may be able to repurpose it to make your coin lockout coil work right if you care about the game not accepting coins during payout.

what to do next


1] still need a picture of the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech showing all the wire colors and switches - especially a switch with yellow and white/black wires which would need to be jumpered out or the switches misadjusted to always be closed.

2] in the purple circle on the coin unit in the below pic, verify the white/black wire is connecting to the yellow/red wire until the unit steps all the way up (2 steps). 

given your game behavior, it seems like the coin unit switches [2] are working but the coin relay switch [1] is wrong.  That's why your coin lockout works after you've "inserted" the first coin.

there should also be a yellow/red wire on a payout relay switch.  Is that wire disconnected or the switch misadjusted to never close?

[shortrackskater]

Corrected... I meant reel assembly! 
I'll start on requested info.

Some progress...
1. I don't see any coin relay on the left side of the reel mech.

2. Black/white wire IS connected to Red/Yellow until unit is stepped up fully.

I don't know where the payout relay is located? Hopper?

[wolftalk]

the coin relay is circled below.  David Lee's pic in post 7 has an arrow pointing to the switches you care about.  You need to see what the white/black wire is doing. 

I'm guessing the white/black 58-3 wire connects to a yellow 30 wire when the coin relay trips.   If so, you need to do a little rewiring to make the coin lockout coil work right.  You need the coin lockout coil to power when either:

1] the coin relay is reset/untripped
2] the coin unit is not at the top step.

pretty doable, but need to see what 58-3 is doing at the coin relay currently.

the main payout relay is usually on the hopper since a couple switches on it control the hopper motor.

[DavidLee]

In general the payout relay is located on the top left rear of the hopper.

[shortrackskater]

That looked more like a solenoid to me... sorry about that. I was looking for the typical "box" configuration.
Stand by...

Reel assy. - left side.

[wolftalk]

ok, that's not going to work.  You have a couple options:

1] remove the switch blades the yellow and white/blade wires are attached to and swap them in the stack.  You need the switch to be closed when the coin relay is reset, and open when the coin relay is tripped (it's tripped in your picture). 

you do not need to unsolder wires are the coin relay end ... just swap the blades and adjust them.

some more rewiring will be needed at the other end the white/black wire on the coin unit.

2] hijack that added relay in your machine and use it to power the coin lockout coil.  However, someone swapped the switch blades on the coin unit, so you'd need to rearrange that stack.

[1] is easier since either option needs moving blades around in a stack.  If you want to do [1], I can give you more details.

[wolftalk]

below schems are what you have and what you need.

step-by-step, do this:

1] on the coin relay, remove the switch stack and bottom wafers/two switch blades with the yellow and white/black wires.  Swap the blades and reassemble/mount the stack.

2] adjust the switch so it is closed when the coin relay is reset, and open when the coin relay is tripped

3] on the coin unit find the open-at-top switch with the white/black and yellow/red wires

4] unsolder the white/black wire and solder it directly to the yellow/red wire.

5] add a new wire from the lug where the white/black wire was and attach it to the yellow wire which is on one of the lugs on the coin unit disc.

that should make your lockout relay basically work, but the game may incorrectly accept a coin during a payout or while the reels are spinning.  If you want to deal with that, you'll need to look at the switches on the payout relay and reel mech C marked below.  They'd be switches with the red/yellow wire on one blade.

I'm assuming you don't have a handle microswitch, but maybe you do.  The handle microswitch, reel mech C switch and payout relay switch may be right, wrong, disconnected or missing. 

[shortrackskater]

Step 1 done.
I'm moving a little slow lately..


Houston we have a problem.

Now it DOES take a coin, but only one. The next coin in returns to the tray.

Unless I didn't set the stack switch properly. I'll check the trip/reset again tomorrow. It's 108 here today and my garage is a little on the warm side.

[wolftalk]

the yellow/red wire on the open-at-top switch on the side of the coin unit is going to the coin lockout coil, and the mating blade should be connected to yellow wire 30 via a jumper wire you added.

when the coin unit is not stepped all the way up, that switch will power the coin lockout coil.

the switch on the coin relay is only needed when the coin unit is stepped all the way up (5 coins played) ... it's how the machine can be reset when you played 5 coins on the last spin.

in the above, the only time the coin lockout coil is unpowered is after you've deposited 5 coins and you haven't spun yet. 

technically this is not quite right.  In the normal bally design the coin lockout coil would also be unpowered during payout and while the reels are spinning, but making your game do that is a bunch more work.

[David Walz]

This is confusing.
Why is it a 1114 model can be 25¢ or $1.00?
Shouldn't it be different numbers for the two?
Are the wiring diagram the same for 25¢, $1.00?
 

[wolftalk]

This is confusing.
Why is it a 1114 model can be 25¢ or $1.00?
Shouldn't it be different numbers for the two?
Are the wiring diagram the same for 25¢, $1.00?
 

most likely the game was originally $1 and was converted to 25c.  Don't have the schematic for the specific model to see.

problem is the $1 machines didn't use a coin lockout coil, they used a coin scavenger solenoid.

the circuits driving the scavenger solenoid are different than the ones driving the lockout coil, so you can't remove the scavenger solenoid coil and bung in a lockout coil without making some wiring changes or adding a relay.

a lockout coil powers to accept a coin and a scavenger coil powers to reject a coin.  The driving circuits need to be inverted when switching between the two.

the above stuff is making it work so it accepts coins until you deposit 5, then it rejects any additional ones.  It's possible to make it reject during payout also by connecting to different wires than the yellow 30 wires described above.

[shortrackskater]

I'm a little confused at this point.
What is my next step?

[wolftalk]

check the open-at-top switch on the side of the coin unit ... the second picture in post #31, but take a pic from further back so all the wiring on the switches is visible.

take a pic with the unit reset and stepped all the way up.

[shortrackskater]

Houston we have a problem.

Now it DOES take a coin, but only one. The next coin in returns to the tray.

Unless I didn't set the stack switch properly. I'll check the trip/reset again tomorrow. It's 108 here today and my garage is a little on the warm side.

I'm stuck at this point.

[wolftalk]

post #59 doesn't make sense? (I'm back in form!)

I'll take a guess ... did you unsolder the yellow/red wire from the open-at-top switch blade on the coin unit and connect the white/black wire to the yellow/red wire, but not resolder both back onto the switch blade?

what ya needed to do was leave the wire on the switch blade and solder the white/black wire onto it.

the yellow/red wire needs to connect to wire 30 by either the open-at-top switch or the coin relay switch (via the white/black wire) or both.

in other words, pretend the white/black wire is yellow/red and then it would visually make sense.

[shortrackskater]

OHHHH I didn't see post #59 because David popped in with his question. I may split that subject out and create a new one from it.
Stand by. I work today so it may be a day from now. 

[shortrackskater]

post #59 doesn't make sense? (I'm back in form!)

I'll take a guess ... did you unsolder the yellow/red wire from the open-at-top switch blade on the coin unit and connect the white/black wire to the yellow/red wire, but not resolder both back onto the switch blade?

what ya needed to do was leave the wire on the switch blade and solder the white/black wire onto it.

the yellow/red wire needs to connect to wire 30 by either the open-at-top switch or the coin relay switch (via the white/black wire) or both.

in other words, pretend the white/black wire is yellow/red and then it would visually make sense.

Ok I'm back to this.
Well I'm an idiot! I had unsoldered the black/white wire instead of the white/black. And if I had just used the wire numbers as instructed, I would not have goofed up.
SO now... the wires are correct, I hope. And yes I left the other wire on the switch contact.
However, now it's back to just taking unlimited coins to the hopper but only registering one coin.