Bally 831 payout/fluorescent issues

[Zachb97]

Recently purchased a bally 831 and it will not pay out on 1 or 2 cherries. All other payouts work on all three lines. I can get it to pay out on cherries if i open the door and wiggle the first and second reels a little. It also pays 2-3 coins too much on the larger payouts and 1 coin too much on cherries when i manually trigger it. (Ex. 6 coins for 2 cherries and 3 coins for 1 cherry)

I have experience with older mechanical slots, but this is my first electromechanical slot. It is in good cosmetic condition, but did sit in the previous owners basement for many years unplayed, so it needs a little tlc to get it up and running and i am hoping someone can help as i'm a lil stumped with a few issues on it.

I have cleaned the wiper boards with 1500 grit sandpaper and adjusted the contacts so they have good contact, operate smoothly, and are centered on the rows of brass contacts. I also rinsed the boards with contact cleaner to get rid of any remaining corrosion as they were fairly black/green when i started. I have also cleaned all other contacts on the mechanism, payout hopper, lower part of case by the handle, and the aluminum plugs behind the hopper/mech.. I have not messed with anything behind the 7's on top as ii all seems to work and lights up when coins are inserted, etc.

The top light has been removed from the machine and the wires are cut inside, not sure if that would affect the issues i'm having.

The fluorecent bulb above the reels does not work, i did notice a black transformer inside the door on the lower right hand side with the starter removed, i did try putting a starter in that socket, but nothing happened. (There is also another transformer to the left of the mech inside the case and i am unsure what it is for or if it is used for the reel light) Is this the right transformer? My next step is to try ordering a new bulb and maybe swap out the transformer with a good used one i have on hand if a new bulb doesn't work. I have access to these small fluorescent transformers as i work for a company that remans fountain soda machines and we replace a lot of old transformers with updated led kits.

The last possible issue i have noticed so far is the solenoid which operates the coin deflector inside the door seems to get very hot once the machine has been on for a few minutes and buzzes/hums, the green paper is mostly burnt off of the coil too, not sure if that is normal, or if it means its on its way out and i need to find a replacement.

Sorry for being long winded, but i really don't know a lot about these machines and am just trying to give as accurate a description as possible of the issues i'm having.

[Zachb97]

Pictures

[Zachb97]

Pictures

[Zachb97]

This solenoid (green one right behind reel 3 on right hand side of mech.) clicks when i jiggle the reels to get it to pay out on cherries

[Zachb97]

Pictures

[Zachb97]

Pictures, the burnt/humming coin deflector solenoid is shown in this group of photos.

[Zachb97]

Id tag

[wolftalk]

if jiggling the reels makes it pay, you need to tweak the reel wiper alignment on the reels a little.   Since the contacts are tilted a little, pay attention to how they are touching the rivets and look most carefully at the smaller rivets lower down. 

an 831-4ZD is a later 831 and probably has the new style hopper - no wiffle ball float in the scoop and motor is mounted directly underneath the pinwheel (spinning platter that feeds the coins around). 

one possible cause for overpay is the brake is gunky and although the hopper motor turns off, the momentum is allowing an extra coin or two to pop out.   The brake is a white plastic and metal piece on the hopper motor rotor and it's job is to stop the rotor quickly when the payout relay unpowers at the end of pay.

if everything overpays, the payout counter may need a little adjusting.  If you manually reset and step up the counter, the wipers should step off the end of trace N on the nth step.  e.g. step up 10 times and the wipers should be convincingly off the 10 trace, but still on it on the 9th step.

the toasty coin diverter coil is pretty normal, as is the buzz.   You can try cleaning the armature plate and the coil top, filing the top of the coil a little, or cheat and stick a couple layers of electrical tape on the bottom of the armature to dampen the buzz. 

replacing the coil is an option too, tho if dimples are worn in the armature plate you may need to pound them out.

if your transformers and other lighting parts are free, I guess you can stick with the old tubes.  I'd convert to LED if it was necessary to buy the pieces.

if you want to email the highest possible resolution pictures to slotpics@cdyn.com or stick them on a file sharing site someplace, I'll bung them onto https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

looks like I have paperwork for the 4ZD ... it'll take a few days to clean it up and get it posted onto the above site for free downloading.

[Zachb97]

Update, i have figured out my fluorescent issues, i had two bad sockets, one bad bulb, and one bad transformer.

I have also fixed the issue with the machine not paying out on cherries with some more cleaning/adjustment to the wiper boards and momentatry contacts.

A little filing/cleaning on the armature plate seems to have stopped the buzzing/humming coil for now!


The only issue i am having now is the machine is still overpaying by 1 coin on the cherries and two coins on the higher payouts. The brake on the bottom of the motor seems free and like it should be engaging instantly, i did try adjusting the little rubber stopper on the green cam wheel on the back to bump the contacts ahead some, but that didn't seem to make any difference. It is the newer style payout hopper withou the ball/arm in it.

[Zachb97]

Payout hopper

[Zachb97]

Payout hopper, two of the pics show before and after giving the mechanism 2 clicks to simulate a two coin payout

[Zachb97]

I did find a white wire with blue tracer just hanging out behind the payout hopper and am unsure where it went, (my thumb nail is pointing to where it goes on leaf switch) the other end goes up by the leaf switches near the handle mechanism.

There is also a red wire that has been cut/zip-tied to the harness near the door switch, i'm guessing that was to disable it as i can play/cycle the machine with the door open.

[wolftalk]

paperwork for the game is on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ now.

the white/blue wire would be 52 or 52-x.  On the handle release relay switch, there a jumper for from that wire to the handle release relay coil?  If yes, it's wire 52-1 and it probably went into the upper compartment to connect to a line S.U. relay switch which fed the "total in" meter.  You probably don't have that meter, so it's not needed.

'course, if it is that wire, why did someone clip it off the beau plug socket in the top ... maybe they hooked it directly to a meter to count number of plays vs. number of coins inserted.

if your second pic in post 10 is after the payout counter has stepped up twice, that's no good.  The contact on the end of the wiper finger needs to be off the 2 trace.  You can try adjusting the zero stop bumper to rotate the wipers more counter-clockwise at reset, but if that's not good enough you have to remove the outboard carriage and spiral cam so you can loosen the screws holding the contact plate to the frame, then you twist the plate to change the reset position of the wipers.

[Zachb97]

The only counter on my machine is for coins in and it works and is in front of the reel mechanism. I'll just tape that wire to the harness so it doesn't get bound up when removing/installing the hopper.

I think i need to pull the cam/plate and do some more tweaking, cause thats with the reset stopper almost all the way out.

[wolftalk]

normally there's threads still visible above the lock nut for the zero stop bumper. 

definitely pull off the outboard carriage and spiral cam to see what's going on.  The wiper arm should be firmly screwed to the spiral cam.  If you can move it, the screw fell out the back side or the cam cracked.

when you remove the carriage, the torsion spring tension on the ratchet side will unwind.  The initial guess when the wipers are against the reset bumper is 2 turns of tension.  You can go a little more if the unit is not resetting well from a 2 pay, but you can't put too much tension or the unit won't be able to step up 200 times.

the zero stop bumper really wants to be set so the first step of the unit grabs one tooth on the ratchet reliably and isn't close to grabbing two teeth.  After that, cocking the plate adjusts the thing so the wipers step off the active pay trace on the correct step.

note at reset, the pawls are lifted off the ratchet teeth, so the first step flops the pawls down onto the teeth and grabs a tooth to rotate the wipers.