Bally 873-4ZZ coin(s) not registering

[Karloz25]

Hi guys, picked up this beauty this weekend.
All in tact. Installed new fuses, 5A, 10A and a 3A.
Lights turn on fine.

When adding nickels, they fall straight through. None register.
Any help would be great.
Thank you 😊

[wolftalk]

the 873-4ZZ is a "jackpot only" machine made for the sahara casino in reno.

paperwork-wise, it will be very close to the 873-K which is on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

a quick check is to manually operate the L-shaped coin switch tripwire underneath the coin mech on the door.  When you push down the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech should trip and the line unit in the top compartment should reset so only the center playline is lit.  When you let go of the tripwire the handle release should trip.  Successive toggling of the coin switch should enabled another line.

when you drop a coin into the chute on the front, it should come out the bottom of the mech and push down the tripwire.  There is a coin lockout coil behind the mech that needs to be powered, so your problem is one of:

1] coin lockout coil not working - either bad coil or just a circuit issue like cruddy/misadjusted switch, dirty plug connection, etc.  The coil needs to power and pull the armature tab out of the mech for a coin to be accepted.  if the coil is bad or you're having trouble finding the problem, you can temporarily cheat and remove the mech and tape over the tab hole in the mech so the tab it can't poke into the coin path.

2] mech is for wrong coin or is crudded up

you familiar with the bally schematics?


the hopper has a couple things you'll want to check:

1] is it the right one?  The "shelf" around the rim looks kinda large for a nickel.  Stick a nickel on the shelf and see if it pokes up far enough to lift the roller arm at the top.  The teeter-tottering of the roller arm steps up the payout counter as coins are ejected.

2] the black star agitator is melted goo, which is normal.  You can get them on ebay.

if you can post a picture of the payout counter unit on the hopper, that'll help verify it's at least a correct hopper.

you in the bay area?

[David Walz]

That needs a good cleaning, rust removal, a great project. 

[Karloz25]

the 873-4ZZ is a "jackpot only" machine made for the sahara casino in reno.

paperwork-wise, it will be very close to the 873-K which is on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

a quick check is to manually operate the L-shaped coin switch tripwire underneath the coin mech on the door.  When you push down the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech should trip and the line unit in the top compartment should reset so only the center playline is lit.  When you let go of the tripwire the handle release should trip.  Successive toggling of the coin switch should enabled another line.

when you drop a coin into the chute on the front, it should come out the bottom of the mech and push down the tripwire.  There is a coin lockout coil behind the mech that needs to be powered, so your problem is one of:

1] coin lockout coil not working - either bad coil or just a circuit issue like cruddy/misadjusted switch, dirty plug connection, etc.  The coil needs to power and pull the armature tab out of the mech for a coin to be accepted.  if the coil is bad or you're having trouble finding the problem, you can temporarily cheat and remove the mech and tape over the tab hole in the mech so the tab it can't poke into the coin path.

2] mech is for wrong coin or is crudded up

you familiar with the bally schematics?


the hopper has a couple things you'll want to check:

1] is it the right one?  The "shelf" around the rim looks kinda large for a nickel.  Stick a nickel on the shelf and see if it pokes up far enough to lift the roller arm at the top.  The teeter-tottering of the roller arm steps up the payout counter as coins are ejected.

2] the black star agitator is melted goo, which is normal.  You can get them on ebay.

if you can post a picture of the payout counter unit on the hopper, that'll help verify it's at least a correct hopper.

you in the bay area?

Thank you for your replies.

I was able to add tape to the backside of the coin mech.
The nickels don’t fall out anymore but I don’t believe they register, the lights don’t change with extra nickels.
The coin mech is for a nickel and the hopper seems to fit nickels.
The pull handles gets stuck it doesn’t return, or grab the reels to spin them.
I’ve included a video and some pics.
I’m near the Central Valley of CA.

https://youtu.be/uaafBYf4eck?si=2yhWKSbCyvLVPCR3

[wolftalk]

looks like your latch pawl is stuck.

the latch pawl is on the bottom/rear of the right side of the reel mech.  Red arrow below.  It's supposed to push the black trip lever to wind up the mechanism.

see https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/windup_and_kick
and https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Windup_and_Kick.m4v [oops ... fixed]

hit the latch pawl with some penetrating fluid or triflow lubricant ... wash out any dried grease with solvent or brake cleaner ... and make sure the pawl can rotate and springs back to the position seen in the above stuff.

you need the game to spin the reels so the coin relay gets reset.  That'll power the coin lockout so the game accepts a coin.

note you have the later design with a different spring connected to the right big half-gear.  Ignore that and just look at what the latch pawl and trip lever are doing in the above pics/video.

[off-track]

Wolf,

Getting a 404 on your m4v but, this https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Windup_and_Kick.m4v works.  Maybe my OS is just too picky on the case?

Even if the latch is mucked up it still shouldn't be that easy to start the windup should it?  It doesn't show in the original video but it doesn't appear to me that the trip shaft is rotating and there sure isn't enough tension.  Could the roll pin be messed up/missing? 

[Karloz25]

looks like your latch pawl is stuck.

the latch pawl is on the bottom/rear of the right side of the reel mech.  Red arrow below.  It's supposed to push the black trip lever to wind up the mechanism.

see https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/windup_and_kick
and https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Windup_and_Kick.m4v

hit the latch pawl with some penetrating fluid or triflow lubricant ... wash out any dried grease with solvent or brake cleaner ... and make sure the pawl can rotate and springs back to the position seen in the above stuff.

you need the game to spin the reels so the coin relay gets reset.  That'll power the coin lockout so the game accepts a coin.

note you have the later design with a different spring connected to the right big half-gear.  Ignore that and just look at what the latch pawl and trip lever are doing in the above pics/video.

Thank you. I will look at that and clean it up. The video file isn’t loading, but I will still look into it.
I plan on giving it a good cleaning and contact cleaning as well. Nothing seems broken or missing, just either full of gunk or rusted/ corrosion.

[wolftalk]

Wolf,

Getting a 404 on your m4v but, this https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Windup_and_Kick.m4v works.  Maybe my OS is just too picky on the case?

Even if the latch is mucked up it still shouldn't be that easy to start the windup should it?  It doesn't show in the original video but it doesn't appear to me that the trip shaft is rotating and there sure isn't enough tension.  Could the roll pin be messed up/missing?

I pooched the case.  Fixed it per off-track's correction.

if the latch pawl is stuck too far rotated counter-clockwise, it will go underneath the trip lever instead of hitting the edge of it and forcing it around.  It's also possible the pawl is going in front or behind the trip lever if the pieces are assembled on the shaft incorrectly.

the roll pin is tying the trip lever to the main shaft.  If the roll pin was sheared or missing, the trip lever would rotate but the shaft wouldn't.  In this case, it looks like the trip lever isn't turning, so it has to be a problem with the latch pawl not pushing the trip lever. 

[Karloz25]

Well after cleaning and adding lubricant, the reels now spin and return.

New problem, the lever was getting stuck after a couple of tries, but after the video, I realized I should lub that too and that fixed that issue.

The coin mech, I removed the tape to bypass, and it will only accept one coin, and not step up.
Even manually it doesn’t count the other coins.
If
I do it manually up at the main stepper it’ll register more coins, but after a pull it won’t reset back to one coin.
Also coins don’t come out correctly, maybe because of gunk, I’ll clean it and order a new star.


See videos

https://youtu.be/Av1cJZHv1lk?si=b-bAl595QWVwlzhW

https://youtu.be/srekoxqUq3E?si=nXQkNgMG9G3YR6zF

This one is of me fixing the handle from getting stuck adding lub:
https://youtube.com/shorts/b15LlB_oKnw?si=Zx21tRychOEIIfUn

[wolftalk]

for line unit step-up/reset, first thing I'd do is clean the plug pins on the insert board. 

do you have a voltmeter and/or jumper wire?

if you have jumper wires, pull out the top insert and stick it on the table next to the open door. 

1] connect one jumper wire from the orange wire (70) on the coin diverter coil on the door (left edge of door to the left of the coin switch) and connect the other end to the orange wire on the line unit reset solenoid coil or line unit step-up relay coil.

that will connect the 50V "hot" to the entire top insert

2] connect a jumper to the yellow wire (30) on the coin switch.  Touch the other end of the jumper to the line unit step-up coil NOT-ORANGE-wire ... in this case it's red/black (18-6).  The coil should power and pull the plunger in.  When you "untouch" the jumper the ratchet should step. 

don't leave a solenoid powered for more than a couple seconds ... it will get red hot and let out some smoke, then eventually burn up.

3] touch/remove the yellow wire 30 jumper to the not-orange-wire on the line unit reset coil ... it's yellow/red (31-2).  The reset coil should fire and the ratchet/wipers whizz back to reset.   You can also just manually push in the reset solenoid coil plunger.  If the wipers/ratchet don't whizz back to reset, you'll need to clean at least the wiper contact plate with a scrub pad and isopropyl alcohol.  You may need to take apart the unit and clean off old grease or wd-40.

4] touch the yellow jumper to the brown/red wire (61-1) on the line unit step-up relay.  If the relay powers, you either have cruddy plug connections or the handle release switch with blue/yellow wire 23-1 connecting to 61-1 when the handle release relay is tripped needs clean/adjust.

there's a switch adjust video in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/, which happens to use a line step-up relay in an 873 as an example.  If you haven't dealt with a bally stepper unit before, there's youtube videos on "cleaning bally stepper units".  They used the same thing in pinball machines.

fwiw, wd-40 in the standard blue can is not ideal.  It's not really a lubricant and tends to form a sticky residue eventually.  They make other stuff that is better for lubricating, but don't use white lithium grease ... that stuff cakes up.

[Karloz25]

for line unit step-up/reset, first thing I'd do is clean the plug pins on the insert board. 

do you have a voltmeter and/or jumper wire?

if you have jumper wires, pull out the top insert and stick it on the table next to the open door. 

1] connect one jumper wire from the orange wire (70) on the coin diverter coil on the door (left edge of door to the left of the coin switch) and connect the other end to the orange wire on the line unit reset solenoid coil or line unit step-up relay coil.

that will connect the 50V "hot" to the entire top insert

2] connect a jumper to the yellow wire (30) on the coin switch.  Touch the other end of the jumper to the line unit step-up coil NOT-ORANGE-wire ... in this case it's red/black (18-6).  The coil should power and pull the plunger in.  When you "untouch" the jumper the ratchet should step. 

don't leave a solenoid powered for more than a couple seconds ... it will get red hot and let out some smoke, then eventually burn up.

3] touch/remove the yellow wire 30 jumper to the not-orange-wire on the line unit reset coil ... it's yellow/red (31-2).  The reset coil should fire and the ratchet/wipers whizz back to reset.   You can also just manually push in the reset solenoid coil plunger.  If the wipers/ratchet don't whizz back to reset, you'll need to clean at least the wiper contact plate with a scrub pad and isopropyl alcohol.  You may need to take apart the unit and clean off old grease or wd-40.

4] touch the yellow jumper to the brown/red wire (61-1) on the line unit step-up relay.  If the relay powers, you either have cruddy plug connections or the handle release switch with blue/yellow wire 23-1 connecting to 61-1 when the handle release relay is tripped needs clean/adjust.

there's a switch adjust video in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/, which happens to use a line step-up relay in an 873 as an example.  If you haven't dealt with a bally stepper unit before, there's youtube videos on "cleaning bally stepper units".  They used the same thing in pinball machines.

fwiw, wd-40 in the standard blue can is not ideal.  It's not really a lubricant and tends to form a sticky residue eventually.  They make other stuff that is better for lubricating, but don't use white lithium grease ... that stuff cakes up.

Great post.
I will do that test and report back.
Thank you for helping

[Karloz25]

https://youtu.be/zs12Al6UKY8?si=lE1SBik2658GMQ24

Video showing the stepper working with help of the jumper.

The coin diverter also was tested with the jumper and it moved, but I’ve never seen it move when adding a coin or manually hitting the coin switch, in other videos, you see the nickels gathered outside the hopper because the diverter did not push them in.

What’s next?
I have a multimeter but would need help on what to what to probe.

*End of the video showing signs of mice chewing on the wires.

[Karloz25]

Update:
After a good cleaning of the beau plug connections, both male and female.
And also reseating the switch relay at the door, the step up counter now functions correctly.
I’m happy to say it’s working properly, now I have to make sure the payouts are correct.
And give it a good deep cleaning and polishing.
I also ordered a proper lubricant to replace the wd40 that I sprayed initially.
Thanks to all who helped me get this far.
Much appreciated 🍺

[wolftalk]

https://youtu.be/zs12Al6UKY8?si=lE1SBik2658GMQ24

that is a great video showing how to use jumpers to test coils.  Okay if I steal it and put in on the bingo.cdyn.com site?

your line unit is working great mechanically, so if you ever have issues with flickering lamps that isn't a socket problem or flaky payout multiplication, cleaning any crud off the rivets would probably fix it.  Dry black streaks on the rivets are pretty harmless and will come back pretty quickly if you clean them off.  Dried lubricants or a thick black skidmarks are more of a problem.

tmi
----

the games are wired with almost all the 50V coils connected with one lug to the "hot" orange wire 70.  The 6V lamps and bell have one side connected to the "hot" blue wire 20.

the rest of the game circuits are getting the non-hot side of the load (coil, lamp,etc.) connected to yellow wire 30. 

if you are debugging a 50V circuit problem with a jumper, you can jumper wire 30 to anywhere in the circuit and if there's a closed path to the load, the load will power.
 
likewise, a lamp problem you can jumper wire 30 into the lamp circuits.

for a voltmeter and a problem in the 50V circuit, put a probe on wire 70 and poke around in the circuit with the other probe.  When you have 50VAC, the connection from the probe back to wire 30 is ok.  You generally move "down" in the schematic towards the coils looking for where the 50V drops way down.

the plug connections aren't shown on the schematic - though the plug charts are - you just have to get used to where stuff is physically in the machine and infer the plug connections.

note also the ideal way to check with a voltmeter is on a completely closed circuit ... one where the coil should be powering but isn't.  Poor connections will show up as voltage drops.  When the circuit is not closed, no current is flowing so poor connections won't lower the voltage reading.

if you really want an overly verbose and poor explanation, see https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/readschem/

it's talking about bingo pinball machines, but not coincidentally the bally slot machines are very similar - though if you have a late enough machine the wires are all plastic-coated and much easier to determine the colors.

[Karloz25]

https://youtu.be/zs12Al6UKY8?si=lE1SBik2658GMQ24

that is a great video showing how to use jumpers to test coils.  Okay if I steal it and put in on the bingo.cdyn.com site?

your line unit is working great mechanically, so if you ever have issues with flickering lamps that isn't a socket problem or flaky payout multiplication, cleaning any crud off the rivets would probably fix it.  Dry black streaks on the rivets are pretty harmless and will come back pretty quickly if you clean them off.  Dried lubricants or a thick black skidmarks are more of a problem.

tmi
----

the games are wired with almost all the 50V coils connected with one lug to the "hot" orange wire 70.  The 6V lamps and bell have one side connected to the "hot" blue wire 20.

the rest of the game circuits are getting the non-hot side of the load (coil, lamp,etc.) connected to yellow wire 30. 

if you are debugging a 50V circuit problem with a jumper, you can jumper wire 30 to anywhere in the circuit and if there's a closed path to the load, the load will power.
 
likewise, a lamp problem you can jumper wire 30 into the lamp circuits.

for a voltmeter and a problem in the 50V circuit, put a probe on wire 70 and poke around in the circuit with the other probe.  When you have 50VAC, the connection from the probe back to wire 30 is ok.  You generally move "down" in the schematic towards the coils looking for where the 50V drops way down.

the plug connections aren't shown on the schematic - though the plug charts are - you just have to get used to where stuff is physically in the machine and infer the plug connections.

note also the ideal way to check with a voltmeter is on a completely closed circuit ... one where the coil should be powering but isn't.  Poor connections will show up as voltage drops.  When the circuit is not closed, no current is flowing so poor connections won't lower the voltage reading.

if you really want an overly verbose and poor explanation, see https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/readschem/

it's talking about bingo pinball machines, but not coincidentally the bally slot machines are very similar - though if you have a late enough machine the wires are all plastic-coated and much easier to determine the colors.

Yes you can use my video.
Thank for a great explanation of how testing is done with a multimeter and the load colors.
That will come in handy.

For my issue(s)
Luckily. It mainly came down to clean in the unit; removing old gunned up grease and cleaning the contact pads off the switches and the calcium / rust off the beau plugs.