Bally 1090 “B” switches and payout counter reset

[Lee Pfeifer]

I’ve been adjusting my “B” switch the one with the black wire with the white trace that goes to the coil on the payout counter , I’ve been adjusting this for several hours , and the switches look perfect, but every once in a while it won’t reset on a low pay like a single cherry 🍒.
Any help / advice would be greatly appreciated.

[wolftalk]

don't forget the payout counter "open at zero" switch.  If your problem is happening on the minimum pay, that switch it likely not closing.


reset the payout counter and verify the switch is open, manually step the payout counter once and verify it's closed. 


the switch has yellow wire #30 and orange/black wire #78-1 on it.  I assume it's the switch at the zero stop bumper on the payout unit.

[Lee Pfeifer]

Here’s the current state of my 1090 , any help is appreciated


https://youtu.be/GMJO4x_QMhY

[wolftalk]

if you leave the game long enough or turn it off, the hopper cut off relay will lose power and the payout relay won't work.


pushing in the bar like you're doing I assume would still reset the payout counter, but since the hopper won't turn on, it's a one-time thing.


to repower the hopper cut off relay, you can close the handle release relay or there's a reset button someplace.


it's not clear from the video what the problem is.  After you turn off the power, you'd need to insert a coin and yank the handle to get the payout counter to reset.

[Lee Pfeifer]

WolfTalk,
The payout counter is resetting like it should , most of the time . And sometimes I have to manually reset the payout counter by hand . Today ( my birthday) it’s working better than it ever has before , I’m just trying to get it perfect .
LEE

[wolftalk]

WolfTalk,
The payout counter is resetting like it should , most of the time . And sometimes I have to manually reset the payout counter by hand . Today ( my birthday) it’s working better than it ever has before , I’m just trying to get it perfect .
LEE

even if the payout counter didn't reset on a handle pull, it should try and reset every handle pull unless the zero switch is open or the b-3 switch wasn't closing.


since you took care of the B-3 switch, the only thing left is the zero switch on the payout counter and the plug connections. 


yank the hopper unit out and make sure that switch is clean and closing well when you manually step the payout counter up once.  You may need to bend the moving blade where it enters the stack so it exerts more pressure on the other blade ... if it's barely touching, it won't be reliable. 


this is one of the exceptions to the rule that you "don't mess with the moving blade".  Since nothing is pushing the moving blade down against the stationary one, all you have is moving blade tension to make a good mechanical connection.


the goal is to have an open switch at reset, and a solid connection at step 1+.


the easiest thing may be:


1] step up the payout counter a times to ensure the pawl is dropped away
2] bend down the moving blade a bit to add some tension against the stationary blade.  Ideally the blade should be on or almost on the pawl still.
3] reset the payout counter so the pawl is lifting up the moving blade
4] adjust the stationary blade for a small gap.  It's fiddly since the moving blade doesn't move a big distance.
5] step the payout counter once and verify the switch is closed. 


if you want to prove the issue is the zero switch, jumper or misadjust it closed permanently.  The payout counter reset coil will fire on every handle pull, but that's harmless except the bit of wear-n-tear.  If you stop having an issue, you know it's the zero switch being flaky due to adjust/clean/pitting.

[Lee Pfeifer]

WolfTalk,
You are awesome, thank you for taking the time to help me , I adjusted the Zero switch and now the machine is acting like it should , I just got home from my birthday party and I played the machine for an hour , it didn’t fail once , thank you Sir

[Lee Pfeifer]

WolfTalk,
You are a genius, yesterday I thought you were and today I know you are .
Thank you for helping me understand these circuits !
Your help has been phenomenal!
LEE

[Amechanic]

WolfTalk.. Where did you learn to repair the EM Slots?  Gary

[wolftalk]

don't ask me anything about the mechanical parts of the machine :-)  Lots of people here have way more knowledge and experience of the common problems, methods of troubleshooting and maintenance.  I get interested when the problem is how a game function is implemented in the circuits.


my self-taught background is bally bingo pinball machines ... they came before the EM slots.   Stuff like relays, stepper units and cam-operated switches carried forward into the slots and flipper pinball games. 


the schematic symbols and style is also the same, so the circuits and troubleshooting them is what I'm comfortable with.


I went to the reno nevada area a lot of years ago and bought a few bingos from a guy who was a bally field tech, operator, slot designer and used machine wholesaler.  He's the guy who had all the documentation.  He let me borrow a bunch of the docs over time and I scanned them. 


a few years ago he died and recently all that documentation was given to me.  My goal is to get the scans cleaned up and posted for free download on a separate web site, but that'll take a while so I've been procrastinating here and posting what people could use immediately.


I do have one slot machine - the commercial white elephant bally 929-1 "bingo continental".   The reno guy said they had gutted all the ones they had and turned them into 5 reel "free spin/win a car" machines.  I wanted to see how one of the EM slots worked, and the bingo tie-in was an obvious choice.


I got an incomplete 929 from barry in florida.  It had the wrong hopper, no reel wipers, and the documentation wasn't anywhere. 


I eventually found someone with a machine I could look in and get enough info to make the odd dual-wiper assemblies and the correct payout unit.  Using the bally manuals, schems for similar games, a couple books people had published and the info from the other 929, I learned how the machine worked.


by pure chance I later found the docs on ebay and the reno guy found some original wipers, so after many years the game was completed.

[Amechanic]

That’s a cool story. I remember reading and following that Bingo build. That’s set of contacts on that one key switch was something else. My biggest problem is reading and following the flow of a schematic. I’m a Mechanic by trade, so working with my hands and trouble shooting come natural to me. I’m also self taught. Bought a 742 about 15 years ago. Guy told me the hopper needed cleaning.. What did I know? Well after too many hours to mention, and finding this form, I finally found a pinched wire grounding out on the hoppers beau plug to its mounting bracket!! It’s still running today. After that I was hooked...

[Lee Pfeifer]

Discovery !!!!!!’


I was having intermittent problems, after I finished playing and disconnected power , when I would return to machine restore power and start to play , it wouldn’t play properly , I would have to reset the payout counter manually and then it would start to play correctly, THEN I discovered than if I disconnected power after a win it would always play properly when I returned, and if I disconnected power on a loss it would not play properly.
Anyways the discovery is if you quit and disconnect power on a win the little arm on the payout counter is not causing the little arm to set against and get stuck to the gooey black rubber bumper on the zero stop unit .
If you disconnect on a loss the lever gets stuck to the black gooey zero stop bumper .
So I need the pencil eraser ✏️ fix .
But I’ve now started stopping all three of my machines on a win so that lever on the payout counter is not sitting against the black bumper.
LEE

[wolftalk]

nice one.  I think my zero stop bumper is wrapped in duct tape :-)

until you get around to replacing it, you could clean the rubber with acetone to remove the sticky stuff then coat it with silicone to minimize the goo formation.  The stuff used for car seals would work.

'course, that's assuming you have acetone and silicone laying around.  An eraser is cheaper.

[OldReno]

When I worked the floor, we’d use 2 pieces of nickel coin wrapper to stick on the gooies. A quick & ugly fix, but when you’re 8 calls behind, anything works. Quick fix now, too.
Wolftalk, your pinball experience is great. Always admired those guys. Worked vacation route for a guy one week, and a couple of his money pins went down. A hoppered pinball type as you may know. The harnesses were as thick as my forearms. Was able to keep it running about half the time. Ingenious devices!!
Who was your friend in Reno? May have known him.


Rule of thumb, with any pay problem, if your winner paid light stays on, machine probably did not reset. Look at payboard, push back clock timing bar, listen for payboard reset coil to fire.
If still no pay, jiggle all 3 reels.

[wolftalk]

phil anderson was the guy in reno/sparks.  He owned ace slots (nothing to do with anything you'd find a web site for these days).


when bally got rid of the documentation for the EM stuff, it was supposed to go to phil.  Someone else grabbed it off the loading dock.


can't remember who phil said it was - maybe someone in southern california.   If anyone knows, I'd love to see if it's still around.

[OldReno]

Worked with Ace Coin many years ago, off Rock & Glendale area, wonder if that’s the same group? Nice guys, owner retired and his son took over I hear. Don’t know if they’re still operating. .
That’s an interesting looking money pin you got there...

[wolftalk]

I think he had ace coin and ace slots on the sign outside his place on pittman, but I could be wrong about the slots part.


when phil died, a friend of his who also worked with phil took on the job of clearing out the warehouse.  It took years.  The bingos/parts all went to the UK in a container.  The slots/parts went to central valley and monti's slot shop.   The one-balls a couple people took some, the rest I think went to the dump.


then there was all the motorcycle parts, the video poker machines, the press for making index discs and the blanks ... 


the warehouse was finally emptied last year and someone new is in there now.


I assume central valley still has a bunch of machines and parts if anyone can find them.  Hopefully they didn't all go to the dump.

[Jon]

Hey Wolf talk we spoke on email several years ago regarding the work you had already done scanning in some of the images I downloaded a lot of the ones you scanned in and fix them put them on my Facebook page free of charge I am the guy that took over a 100 of the old IA machines out of Ace gaming and most of the rest of the old Em parts from Alan he was a wonderful Tech have not heard from him in a few years I thought off a roof 3 years ago have not been able to travel back to see anyone unfortunately

[Jon]

Excuse me well all the roof

[Lee Pfeifer]

I just saw these reply’s , you guys are the best thank you for teaching me !
I will make you proud!