first Reel not spinning properly on a three reel EM

[gooch]

Greetings to all!

I have acquired a three reel, single line. high top, full sized Bally machine.  I think it is an 809. I have slowly got it back to running and paying off properly. It takes up to 5 quarters and it has bars with one 7 per reel. It has been modified in the sense that the original lights in the upper part of the machine behind the top glass were changed to wedge type bulbs and a plywood platform that is hinged so the relays are behind the lights when it is pivoted up and the lock slid down over the screw.

My problem is that every so often the first reel on the left, (facing the machine), doesn't kickoff and spin properly and does strange things, it sort of slowly spins, drifts and the reel turns so slowly or even goes backwards very slowly. The center and right reel work fine with every pull of the handle. The 3 levers goes into the index slots no matter if the left reel makes a good spin or not.

I have looked at the books I have, Owners Pictorial Guide and the Complete Service Manual for the Bally EM machines and the Bally EM manual and they recommend multiple solutions/ fixes, from the loosening the "E" nut to removing the reels and checking out if the "bars" are gummed up or changing the holes.

If this was your machine, what would you try first, then second and so forth?

Any assistance would be appreciated!

Thank you.

[rokgpsman]

I'm not familiar with your machine type, but can you swap the 1st reel assembly with the 2nd reel assembly and then see if the problem moves to the 2nd reel position? If the problem stays in the 1st reel position then you'll know the problem is in the cabling, connectors or other stuff that specifically goes to the 1st reel. If the problem moves to the 2nd reel position you'll know that something is wrong with the reel assembly and you can then perhaps swap individual parts of the reel assembly to narrow down what is wrong.

But if swapping the reel assemblies doesn't change the problem then you'll know the problem is not in the reels but elsewhere. At least if would eliminate some things. Some times if I can't prove what part is bad I begin by verifying what is good, so as to eliminate possibilities to a reasonable level.

[buybestslots]

all 3 reel are on same axle make sure reel spins free  on axle , you can take all 3 reels and and spin them if not that the kicker on 1st reel might need adjustment oris sticking

[CVslots]

Yah, you're 1st reel is just sticky.


I'm going to have to disagree with rokgpsman's suggestion, as you don't want to dissemble an EM reel mech just yet.


Remove the 3 reels (on the one central axis, as buybestslots stated) from the machine (all 3 reels are on one axle, and are remove by levers underneath. They will come off like 3 reels on a stick basically.), and set them aside. Underneath where the reels were are the "kickers". Thoroughly clean and lube the mechs and once you get in there, you should start to see what the problem is. So etching is gummed up...dig that gum out and reapply some nice silicone or 3-in-1 and you'll be set. Be sure to wipe off any excess, as it tends to splatter a bit on the first few spins and can damage your reel strips.


You can also try a search on here for gummed up or sticky reels. I know Old Reno have an awesome tutorial on how to clean and re-lube a reel mech.

[Amechanic]

It sounds like the latch paw for reel one is frozen to the cross shaft. The cross shaft is a small shaft running the width of the reel assembly. It's only 3/16" or 1/4" in Dia.. That shaft should spin free as should one or two others. The levers and latches freeze up from lack of lubracation over the years. If the latch paw is frozen, you usually have a reel fail to spin, or lock as soon as you pull the handle. I hope this helps..

Gary

[gooch]

Wow!

Thanks to all who responded to my problem.

I will take the reels out of the assembly and check things out.

BTW, its a 1088-1 machine, right to left and left to right, all bars with one 7 per reel, it takes up to 5 quarters.

I will try to solve this problem Saturday morning, since by the time I get home from work its dark here on Long Island.

Sunlight seems to provide the best light to work on the inside.

I will keep you all advised.

Many thanks again for the tips.

Is the information from Old Reno still available for me to download?

I haven't found it so far.

A very respectful Gooch

[Amechanic]

I believe to access the down load section, you have to be a contributing member.

Gary

[rokgpsman]

Wow!

Thanks to all who responded to my problem.

I will take the reels out of the assembly and check things out.

BTW, its a 1088-1 machine, right to left and left to right, all bars with one 7 per reel, it takes up to 5 quarters.

A very respectful Gooch

Good luck with it - sorry if my early post in the thread led you astray. I took a shot and evidently it was off the mark. Glad we have others with experience here to be a guide.


 

[OldReno]

Gooch,
Here's a link to part 2 of troubleshooting that I posted a while back.   I think somewhere around post #26 you will see the area that you might want to adjust.  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=19336.0
It sounds like you are getting kickoff too early, and you can adjust your L stop bracket (#26 at bottom right side) by moving it toward the front of the mech.  On the floor I would often bend it carefully with pliers, although I will never admit that to anyone. (But then, when you've got 10 customer waiting calls you don't get picky) Or you can play around with the adjusting nut on the pump arm link.
Try to kick off the reel mech  out of the machine by pushing on the pump arm with some vigor until it kicks.


Also, hold your clock fan after you kick off the reels, and see if the 1st reel stops much quicker than the other two. It might be dry.
Welcome aboard.
Donner/oldReno

[gooch]

Progress it seems...

I took apart the reel mechanism, removed the reela and cleaned and lubed everything I can.

Filed off the rough edges on the cuts of first reel.

Put a new cup in the pump cylinder, since I have a pack of 4 left for doing the same thing to my 873 machine when it turned to a gummy tar.

Now I am attempting to adjust the stroke of the machine via the "E" and "G" nut.

I can't get the exact measurements as shown, the 1 & 11/16.

The measurement on the "J" bracket is right on.. 1 & 7/8.

This machine must be older as it does not have the rubber bumper on the "N" arm which is right ahead of the "J" bracket..

Question: Should I be turning the "E" nut towards the front of the machine or to the rear to get a better spin of the reels?

It only fails to kick all three of the reels only about once in every 12 or more pulls.

Whatever I should be doing, kindly let me know?

[OldReno]

Let me think here...
If the shaft gets longer, then it kicks sooner, or rather hits the L-stop bracket sooner.
(Therefor, the less threads showing on the END of the shaft, then the longer the shaft is.)
If I have more threads showing on the end of the shaft, then it will kick off later.
As I recall, basic settings are:
L-stop bracket should be even with the end of the reel mech metal.
Shaft normally has 3 and 1/2 turns of threads showing.  Remember that there are two nuts there to deal with, one to change and one to snug it up.  If you move the back one back, you must also move the front one back, too, to take out slop.  If you move the front one forward, you have to also move the back one forward.
Make sure it kicks and spins ok OUT of the machine, before putting it back in and possibly locking up the handle.
If it does not mis-spin all that often, then consider just doing tiny little adjustments from time to time to eventually bring it back into good operation.
If you go and do major tweaking, you might get into trouble.
Make sure all parts of reel 1 kick and trip mechanisms are well lubed, and that your reel board wipers are not dry, and not too stiff hitting on the buttons.  Wipe a little light oil on the buttons.
You can play the machine without the reels in, and might be able to see something amiss that way....
Any other input here appreciated....

[The Fatman]

I have run across this situation quite often. Cleaning and lubing the linkages below the reels was where I fixed almost all the issues I had in that type of problem. OldReno is very right about fireing off the mech outside the machine with the reels out. You can easily see and part of the linkage that is sticky and lubrication is easy. Sounds like you are close to getting it right and it shouldnt take too much to get it right. I find that the problem with the first reel is almost always a lube issue. Rmember that these machines are almost always on in the casino which makes tyhe grease soft. But in home use, if the machine is not warm inside the grease (especially if its old grease) will be a little sticky. I do suggest the removal with PB Blaster and a nylon wore brush to remove as much old grease as possible. Only on a last resort, I use Mineral Spirits, but that strips everything of all lubricants so you need to relube it completely and well. I am looking forward to this machine to be running for you 100% in just a little time. 
Dave F

[gooch]

Well.. I tried to send some pictures, but for some reason they didn't go into the forum, neither did the post??

I must not be making the great God of the Internet pleased?

See if it works tonight?

[buybestslots]

that's no 809   that's a 10?? thinking 1040 jpo

[The Fatman]

If it is a 5 coin play machine, then the reel glass is wrong. If it is a 3 coin play, the reel glass could be right but the top glass is wrong. Top glass shows 5 line play and the reel glass shows 3 coin play. Something just aint right there. See if the Bally MFG plate is under the handle, it will list the model. Looks like it might be a Buy a Play machine 1088 if it is a 3 coin play machine..
Dave

[buybestslots]

1088 has fruit

[The Fatman]

Ok .... well is it a 5 or 3 coin machine?
Dave

[buybestslots]

that's a good question only way to tell is see if it takes 3 or 5 coins

[Amechanic]

that's no 809   that's a 10?? thinking 1040 jpo

I had one simular about a year ago, and mine was a 1090?  From looking at my book it could be any thing fron 1088, 1089, 1090, 1096...Its a single line 5 coin multifier... I need to go back and look at the reels glass. did it say if it pays right to left and left to right? If it does then that would be a fruits reel glass.. Check for markings on the inside of the door or on from of the reels assembly for any numbers written in marker or pencel.. sommetimes there is a string tag inside the cabiner with information on it..
Gary

[The Fatman]

I also see the model # sometimes on the wiper boards or written on the hopper.
Dave