Author Topic: No "Insert Coin" (Read 10505 times)

sudsy7 · « **on:** February 15, 2015, 12:48:51 PM »

I have an E-2000 fruit machine that had only a bell for sound when I got it. It had an oddball non-Bally program chip (107085). I wanted to convert it to sound for the longest time, but the original chip didn't support sound, and I couldn't find a program to match the payout glass. So I had almost given up hope when a nice guy named John Spina contacted me out of the blue one day and was able to furnish me with the program (583784) and sound chip to make it work. I had to make a custom #1 reel strip for it, but other than that it works perfect, except for one thing. The "Insert Coin" lamp does not light up at any time. I thought maybe the transistor (Q9) was blown, but when I do the #2 test, the lamp lights up. So, next I thought maybe whoever made this custom program may have mapped that lamp function to another "unused" transistor, but I have checked all others and that is not the case. It appears that for some reason, the "Insert Coin" lamp function was left out of the program.

Anyway, seems odd to me, and I don't see how I can fix it, but I'm just curious if anyone else has ever run across something like this before?

cowboygames · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2015, 01:33:58 PM »

Is there a solenoid on the coin comparitor or something that's only active when the game is ready to accept coins that you could tie that light wiring into?

sudsy7 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2015, 02:11:18 PM »

Quote from: cowboygames on February 15, 2015, 01:33:58 PM

Is there a solenoid on the coin comparitor or something that's only active when the game is ready to accept coins that you could tie that light wiring into?

I currently just have the Triac tab jumpered to ground so the light is on all the time - I thought that was better than off all the time. The light really should be off when you put the 5 coin max in or while the reels are turning or during payouts. I suppose I could add some hardware to accomplish that logic. It would have been so much easier for the programmer to use the software to do it though - that's what I don't understand.

cowboygames · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2015, 04:50:56 PM »

That's what I was getting at. Isn't there a diverter solenoid that is only active when coins can be inserted? That would turn the light on and off at the correct times

sudsy7 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2015, 05:06:01 PM »

No, pretty sure the diverter solenoid is on continuously after the first play. Components that go on/off simultaneously on these machines are driven from the same triac.

cowboygames · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2015, 07:56:13 PM »

Gotcha, don't know a whole lot about those machines so it was just a thought...

sudsy7 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2015, 09:03:33 PM »

Thanks, I appreciate your response, cowboygames. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be nice to be able to decompile old programs like this in order to make simple changes for oversights like this one? Probably next to impossible to do it though I would imagine.

cowboygames · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2015, 09:40:24 PM »

The way those programs are encrypted, I'm more than a little surprised someone was able to hack it well enough to write their own program at all

GOS · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2015, 03:13:13 AM »

the 107085 program is a bally game chip for a e1243-1 using strips m239-289,290,291 a 5 line without sound The 583784 is for an e2272-41 uses different strips but has sound. The p1 should not effect the insert coin light - put your original 107085 to prove that.

ramegoom · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:23:14 AM »

I was always under the impression that the "Insert Coin" lamp doubles as a CPU-ready feature. Works differently than the Tilt lamp, but that's the indicator that the machine will play.

The fact that the lamp doesn't light during normal play but yet the game plays, tells me there might be a problem in the IO board logic, behind that TRIAC that triggers the light.

sudsy7 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2015, 03:59:25 PM »

Quote from: GOS on February 16, 2015, 03:13:13 AM

the 107085 program is a bally game chip for a e1243-1 using strips m239-289,290,291 a 5 line without sound The 583784 is for an e2272-41 uses different strips but has sound. The p1 should not effect the insert coin light - put your original 107085 to prove that.

A couple of years ago when I was trying to convert to sound, Foxxslots looked up the 107085 and told me not it was not a valid Bally program - probably a rewrite of some type he told me. The strips for this machine are M231-187 for Reel 2 and M231-188 for Reel 3. Reel 1 was originally M231-186 for the 107085 chip, but when I plugged the 583785 chip in, I had to customize the last half of it because there is a variance in the plums, bells and cherry positions.

The 107085 chip always did work with respect to the "Insert Coin" light, but the problem is that it doesn't support sound. I did not change the I/O board. Just added the required daughterboard to it for the sound upgrade,

I thought the P1 chip contains the code that controls lights, etc., so I don't understand when you say P1 chip won't affect the insert coin light.

sudsy7 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:02:50 PM »

Quote from: ramegoom on February 16, 2015, 06:23:14 AM

I was always under the impression that the "Insert Coin" lamp doubles as a CPU-ready feature. Works differently than the Tilt lamp, but that's the indicator that the machine will play.

The fact that the lamp doesn't light during normal play but yet the game plays, tells me there might be a problem in the IO board logic, behind that TRIAC that triggers the light.

The same I/O board will trigger the Insert lamp with the old P1 chip, but not with the new P1 chip, so that tells me that there is nothing wrong with the I/O board. Also, even with the new P1 chip, the insert coin light will come on during a #2 test.

ramegoom · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2015, 04:13:28 PM »

Maybe DHellis will step in, but I'm thinking maybe the lamp and solenoid test is initiated thru a separate logic circuit in the IO than the logic from the CPU for normal game play. Not sure though.

I find it very odd that the lamp won't light with that P1. Now you have me wondering. I know I have that same P1 in at least one of my machines, and don't believe I've ever had an issue with the INSERT COIN light not lighting.

And I'm pretty sure ALL E-series machines use the same IO circuit for that function.

Is it possible the former owner re-wired your machine?

sudsy7 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2015, 05:10:25 PM »

Interesting thought about the re-wire. It's possible, but because the #2 test gets the lamp on I would tend to believe that it's wired correctly. Is it possible that the 583784 chip/program I have is corrupt? Or is possible that the P2, M1, M2, and M3 chips I have are not the correct ones? Here is what I have in my machine:
P2: 003701
M1: E-755-80
M2: E-755-47
M3: E-755-133
Would you mind checking your machine (with the 583784 chip) and see how they compare to mine?

ramegoom · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2015, 05:28:21 PM »

My M3 is E755-102, so that may be the problem. I think you may have found the problem...

Here's a link to the binaries which you can download. I would suggest downloading the -102 and burn a blank 2716 for the occasion. Otherwise, M1, M2 and P2 are all identical:

http://www.ramegoom.com/john/E2272-41/

sudsy7 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2015, 06:01:04 PM »

Quote from: ramegoom on February 16, 2015, 05:28:21 PM

My M3 is E755-102, so that may be the problem. I think you may have found the problem...

Here's a link to the binaries which you can download. I would suggest downloading the -102 and burn a blank 2716 for the occasion. Otherwise, M1, M2 and P2 are all identical:

ramegoom - that is awesome! I can't wait to try it. I will have to dig up my burner (haven't used it for ages - not even sure where it's at right now), and I probably won't get a chance to do it until the weekend, but I will report back with the results. I'll also compare the checksums for the other chips to see that they are exactly like yours. You have renewed my hope of getting this machine back to 100% operational - Thank you!

ramegoom · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2015, 07:01:49 PM »

I would send you the programmed chip, but I'm in Mexico right now, won't be back to the US until Thursday.

If you can't find a 2716, use a 2732 and put the program in it twice, stacked one after the other. Pretty sure that will work.

sudsy7 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2015, 08:10:23 PM »

I'm sure I have blank 2716 chips around here, and besides, I want to refresh my memory on the chip burning process anyway. Thanks for the offer though.

GOS · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2015, 09:54:52 AM »

the M3-133 is a replacement for the 102 - ""modified to reduce 9x tilts" per bally
When you play the game with the door closed does the insert coin work AFTER the first handle pull?
Did it work with the original P1? Does it work with now with the original P1?

sudsy7 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2015, 03:35:27 PM »

Quote from: GOS on February 17, 2015, 09:54:52 AM

the M3-133 is a replacement for the 102 - ""modified to reduce 9x tilts" per bally
When you play the game with the door closed does the insert coin work AFTER the first handle pull?
Did it work with the original P1? Does it work with now with the original P1?

The insert coin lamp does not work at all at anytime with the new P1. Doesn't matter if first pull or 100th pull, door open or closed. The only time it works with the new P1 is during the #2 test or if you ground the tab of the Q9 triac.

Yes it worked fine with the original P1.

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Author Topic: No "Insert Coin" (Read 10505 times)