Best configuration for payout percentages

[Rane420]

Hello all,

We are setting up our home casino to work as a savings account.  We don't want our play over too quickly, but also don't want $20 to last all night either.   This has raised some questions for me.  I had originally set all the games in my Super Star Poker to the next level down from the highest payout percent and it felt like it could hardly loose.  My Game King 6.3 was configured the same and seemed fine.  I know it's over the life of the machine and we were probably just jumping to conclusions way too quickly, but I find myself wondering what Vegas and the Indian casino's tend to set their payouts to.  I've heard that Vegas is usually set near the top payout percent and the Indian Casino's near the lowest. I'm thinking there are enough people on here that see the casino settings that I would ask what others have found.  Can anyone confirm or deny?

[Shaggy]

Well as usual, the life of the game. Yeah I see what you're saying. If you want to set things down, I'd say about 85%. You know everybody has an opinion and blah, blah, blah...But maybe down farther will help help you save money. Personally I would suggest a piggy bank. But that's just me. If I wanted to save money, I wouldn't have spent the money to buy these in the first place.   

Dave

[Shaggy]

As a PS you know most of us buy these for fun. We don't look at them as a source of income. If you are really setting up a home Casino I hope you have the correct gaming license. If not make sure and have your inmate number posted for future replies. But seriously, this is not a good way to make a retirement income. Unless you are actually licensed. If that is the case, less is better in a small setting with no competition. Dude Hell of a question, hope it works out for you.

Dave

[Rane420]

Good point on buying the machines, this hobby hasn't been savings friendly :-). No worries on the home casino either.  The only ones that will be playing for savings will be me and my wife.  All others are FREE PLAY ONLY!!! :-)  The idea is that on a  lucky machine night we earn dinner at a restaurant, the not so lucky nights might turn into a mini vacation here and there.  Since it's all our money it's not really gambling, but thought it might increase the enjoyment if it felt like winning.

[Terry B]

This message hit a note with me. I have friends that are serious gamblers. Like you, I do not allow anyone to put money in my machines. What strikes me is that my "gambler" friends do not have the "risk" of loosing money so they really are not interested in playing my machines.

[jay]

From a slot perspective the difference between a 92% machine and a 95% machine is that the latter chipset has 2 more low value winning combinations on the PAR (Paytable and reel). After that its the luck of the draw. The machine generates 3 random numbers and if they match you win more and if they don't you lose.

I remember reading sometime ago that the Nevada Gaming Board requires that games submitted for approval must be able to run a spin simulation of 10mm spins, 10x in a row with each resulting in a payback to the stated percentage. Then there are code reviews etc to ensure there are no hidden easter eggs that can be exploited etc. In essence they spend a lot of time and money to ensure there is no funny business. Subsequently most gaming jurisdictions simply defer to the Nevada certification vs setting up their own test labs. Of course everything that you read on the internet is true so there may be some variance to this statement or to my memory.

I also attended G2E (The gaming expo in LVS) sometime ago and one of the IGT design execs suggested that the optimum gaming experience was that a $20 bill inserted to a 1c machine should provide 20min of gaming enjoyment. This was the psychology of the slow bleed. You play 30 lines at 10 coins per line for a $3.00 spin - he said that on a traditional slot you would never get the mom-and-pop Winnebago crowd to play 3 reel quarter machines with a 0.75c spin but make it a penny slot and they have no problem in playing $3.00.... anyways on a $3.00 spin the punter "wins" back $1.80 and the player feels good due to the visual and audio re-enforcement, they are impervious to the fact that they just lost $1.20. Next you add in some other bonus games with a progressive video clip that extends each time its played and you have them hooked in to keep playing to see what happens next.

In my home I run off of tokens so no one looses their lunch money. The tokens are .984 (25c sized and my denomination all reads 25c)  I have however found that if I leave a bucket of coins next to the machine like Terry B describes, my friends will pop a few coins into the machine and then quickly loose interest. I have a coin roller and my own paper shotgun tubes with my casino name embossed on the side (see www.netbankstore.com these are cheap cheap). I give them a bucket with a rolled set of coins - they crack that roll, play the machine, and in 10min are back shaking the bucket at me looking for another roll. Interesting experiment in psychology.

I run my machines with a the 92% chip set.

I also have a linked progressive setup with lots of signage and I like to see  activity on the signs - subsequently I have my percentages setup so that the sign increases by 1c for every coin inserted. Assuming my token is worth 25c ....This is 4%. The casinos use more of a 1/8th of a cent - where as every 8 coins inserted it goes up by 1c. This is just not active enough and I start to question if the progressive is working properly (LOL). Since the progressive only hits on the top awards this is more of a hand pay scenario.

One of the guys I know got one of those giant novelty checks and took pictures of all his friends holding them and has one of those digital picture frames that loops through all of the winners at his casino. I want to do something like this but haven't had the time to put it together.

If you are looking at a happy medium between your piggy bank scenario and tokens you could get a "change breaker" where you put $$ in and tokens come out. This way you give "free" rolled tokens to your friends and you use the purchased ones....

[Rane420]

Great info!  I have on more than one occasion stayed at a machine longer than I'd like to admit because I was a combination of stubborn and curious what the bonus would look like.  Thanks to YouTube I've found I can usually type in the slot game and satisfy my curiosity for free. Sadly, it doesn't help so much with the stubborn side.

Only two of my machines are currently able to take coins, but I do have roughly a thousand quarter sized tokens from the Bellagio that I haven't worked into my plan as of yet.  I'll have to look into some combination of setting up TITO on the non coin machines and see if there is any way to make the bill breaker concept take vouchers.  I couldn't figure out in the past how to include the Bally S5500 into the TITO world, but a change/token machine would be a pretty slick way to accomplish it!  Now if I could figure out a way for the same machine to count the tokens and turn them into TITO vouchers so it could go full circle that would be way cool!

I'd still curious as to know what people have seen for the payout percentage on their machines prior to configuring them for home use. If for no other purpose than to know how my settings would stack up.

[shortrackskater]

Good point on buying the machines, this hobby hasn't been savings friendly :-). No worries on the home casino either.  The only ones that will be playing for savings will be me and my wife.  All others are FREE PLAY ONLY!!! :-)  The idea is that on a  lucky machine night we earn dinner at a restaurant, the not so lucky nights might turn into a mini vacation here and there.  Since it's all our money it's not really gambling, but thought it might increase the enjoyment if it felt like winning.

Glad you posted this question.  There's been some great information posted by everyone.
I have a number of machines and used ONE just as my piggy bank: a boring old three coin/line S plus Double Diamond.
I think the chipset is less than 92% and it pays just barely enough to be fun! BUT... I do like putting in my money just like in Vegas, and pretending that I can't open it up, which makes things more real to me and more fun.
A few months ago, I wanted to buy something (yes another slot!) and decided it was time to reap the rewards of my machine. First, the hopper was nearly overflowing with quarters (I took just some out) and the bill box had close to 4 inches of bills (that's how you save) in it. To my surprise, there was about $300 of ones, fives, and the occasional ten in there! So maybe pick on of your machines, or buy another and make it the dedicated piggy bank.

[qbert]

Most casinos will set the percentage based on the competition that is close by. Vegas the competition is stiff so they usually run their machines in the 87-91% range realize that is an average for all machines on property. Some of the new machines may be set at 98% when they are first put on the floor for a month or two to draw you in. Later they are set to the standard 87-91 range.
Casinos that have no competition like the Hard R in FL are set harder 79-87 since most visiting are tourists and only gambling boats are competition for them.
Many places like Harrah's in (KC or IO can't remember which) will actually post their overall odds on slot machines on the wall as you enter.
I think it was like 89. But again that is the average for all slots on property some will be high some low.
Most gaming commissions for each state will have a minimum percentage that they will allow a casino to use. Casinos will move them up from there based on factors described above. If the machines are set too tight and never pay word travels quickly and soon no one will go. The casino wants you to stay as long as possible and bleed you slowly so you spend dollars on food etc. Think of it as death by a thousand paper cuts.
Hope that helps answer your question.
Rich

[Rane420]

Thanks everyone!  Some great info and suggestions.  My first machine was a the Bally S5500 and we used it similar to how Shortrackskater mentions, we'd put in a few dollars from time to time and it definitely built up.  It was a spare change sort of thing and it worked great.  It's proceeds also went on to the next slot purchases.  For my current plan, I want include the additional machines and make it feel as close to an authentic casino outing as I can. Without driving 45 minutes and without handing over my cash to the real casino.  With us having the keys and it being our money, I fully realize there will be limitations.  That said, we have a baby coming at the end of the month and true outings will be few and far between for a while.  I want a place where we can be adults for a bit in the evening, once the kids are asleep where we can relax and feel a bit like ourselves.  It may all be just one of many crazy plans, but with the input from everyone here, I have hopes it will be a decent replica. 

I've gotten everything I could have hoped for and more out of this post!  Thanks to all!!!

[CVslots]

I've heard that Vegas is usually set near the top payout percent and the Indian Casino's near the lowest.

Not sure of your location, but in CA and NV, it's actually the opposite. The mandatory payback (averaged over ALL the machines in the casino) for Nevada casinos is 87.5% and for California Indian casinos it is 92%. The difference in paybacks (which translate to profit for the casinos), combined with shorter drives during inclement weather over Donner Pass, have given CA Indian casinos (or the "metal tepees", as they are referred to by some NV competitors) such an advantage, that casinos in western NV (Lake Tahoe, Reno, Carson City, and Virginia City) have been hit so hard many were forced to close. And the remaining few are on the brink of death. They now depend on entertainment, dining, events, locals, etc to make it.

[Rane420]

That's interesting.  I did some searching and it looks like near me (Arizona) the casino's have a 75% min for Keno machines, 80% for line games and 83% for poker.  I'm sure that like Rich says, each casino makes it's own call as long as the minimum is met, but it doesn't sound like AZ is going to run any CA or NV casino's out of business anytime soon.  Thanks for the additional input!