1090 payout problems please help

[Lee Pfeifer]

Everything pays right except the third row for the third coin multiplier.
I’ve worked for hours and hours and hours and I’m stumped, please help
https://youtu.be/3_UJbVO1dqU

[Lee Pfeifer]

1090 payout problems part 2


https://youtu.be/93e5v3FUf2U

[Amechanic]

Have you removed the top payout feature glass to expose the other group of relays a odds units? There should be a step up unit that might need to be cleaned..

[Lee Pfeifer]

That’s what I think too , I’ll go clean it right now .
Thank you for the quick response.
I’ll go clean it and report back

[Lee Pfeifer]

I cleaned the stepper unit real good , it’s still over paying on the third coin multiplier, first coin pays perfect and second coin pays perfect add the third coin and it over pays .

[Amechanic]

Can you post some pictures of your top box setup. Would like to see what’s all in your game.

[Lee Pfeifer]

Here the upper unit

[wolftalk]

I cleaned the stepper unit real good , it’s still over paying on the third coin multiplier, first coin pays perfect and second coin pays perfect add the third coin and it over pays .

your main problem is most likely the switch on the X3 unit.  It's in the top compartment  on the left side.  See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIfZ0MGp7XM


at around 4:00 the video is showing the units and he's describing them.


look for a switch with yellow/brown and red/green wires on it operated by the X3 unit.  Make sure that switch is clean and adjusted.

[Lee Pfeifer]

Ok I never knew how those reels worked , now I sorta get it the one on the right counts payouts for coin one and coin two and it’s accurate , the reel on the left handles the third coin but it doesn’t know how to count ( yet ) .
Also on my set up there are no switches on the back of those two number reels , I’ve cleaned it I’ve cleaned the contacts , I have no idea why it’s overpaying .

[Lee Pfeifer]

New discovery! Please watch this video and help me figure this out


https://youtu.be/r_8BmIxp8-U

[Amechanic]

Do those X Units move/advance? Try pushing the plunger to see if they turn. There are some very small contacts on a wiper board. The wiper board could be dirty or have a contact that not making a good connection. Your in the right area now. You might just have to remove and disassemble them to clean and inspect everything. You have a couple small plastic latches and spring and a couple small e-clips holding everything together. 

[Lee Pfeifer]

They do advance,  the third coin multiplier wheel will occasionally pay correctly on a single cherry if the wheel starts off in a certain spot like I explained in the video above , I cleaned the contacts and the wiper board as best I could with q-tips , alcohol and I cleaned the contacts themselves with a narrow piece of cardboard that I cut from the back of a legal pad , I was hoping that that cleaning would show some improvement, but no such luck .

[Lee Pfeifer]

Where do those wheels get their signal from I’m lost ......

[Lee Pfeifer]

1090 payout problems part four


I’ve been working on this for two days , steadily observing , pulling the handle and counting coins .




https://youtu.be/cZNV-tnhlKc

[Lee Pfeifer]

In the picture you can see where I’ve written to show how much it’s paying over , it’s real consistent.

[rdaniel]

Lee, is it possible one of the teeth on the wheel is broken. Did you check?

[Lee Pfeifer]

Not that I see

[wolftalk]

that is a pretty standard bally pinball score reel mechanism.  Look on youtube for "bally score reels" and pick a video that shows how to take one apart.


notice your X2 unit has numbers on the plastic wheel ... that's because it literally IS a standard pinball score reel - it has numbers 0-9, so ten steps and you are back to the same number.   



your X3 unit wheel does not have numbers because there's two more teeth on the ratcheting mechanism ... 12 steps and you are back to the same place.  There's no pinball machine that needed to use a 12 position reel, so they didn't have a warehouse full of those pieces with numbers already printed on them.



you really need to disassemble the X3 unit so you can clean off the printed circuit board and the wiper fingers.  Use a non-abrasive scrub pad and alcohol.  It's possible the trace has a burn-thru ... if so take a picture of the board so the trace pattern and part number is visible

what may not be obvious from the videos is how the reel is mounted into the game.  It's probably easiest to pull the entire top unit out of the machine, then you're be able to see how the unit frame is clipped onto a mounting bracket and you release it by pushing down a lever arm near the coil - assuming they mounted it the same way as the pinball machines do.


more tmi below
------------------


what's happening with the X3 unit:
- every coin ejected steps the wheel around
- at every third step the unit wipers on the printed circuit traces connect the circuit to the payout counter, so that steps also.


so three coins out = three steps of X3 unit = 1 step of payout counter to create a 3x payout multiplication.


the X2 unit works the same way but connects the payout counter every two steps ... hence a standard pinball score reel works because it has an even number of steps.


in your case, the connection to the payout counter is not working at one or more of the four places it's supposed to.  At that position the three coins ejected don't step the payout counter and you'll get an overpay because those three coins effectively weren't counted.  How much of an overpay depends on how many times the X3 unit goes around and what position it started at. 

the key thing is the overpay will be a multiple of 3 assuming the X3 unit starts at a normal position.  If for some reason the X3 unit starts at one of the eight "not normal" positions, your total pay will not be a multiple of 3  because the payout counter will step 1 or 2 coins too soon the first time.

[Lee Pfeifer]

Thank you , I will study tonight on how to dissemble , and I will take it completely apart in the morning, and take some pics , thank you WolfTalk!

[Lee Pfeifer]

I took the X3 reel completely apart , I also cleaned it , there is no change in the way it plays , still overpaying . There are several burn marks .