1088-2 Tilt Light On, Hopper Not Working

[wolftalk]

you have a meter probe on the red/blue wire on the payout relay coil and the other meter probe on wire 70 on the door?


if so, your payout relay won't work....but at least you proved the payout relay coil isn't blown.


I've mentioned a couple times your red/blue wire on the payout relay coil needs to be connected to wire 70.  Is that not making sense?

[Karloz25]

you have a meter probe on the red/blue wire on the payout relay coil and the other meter probe on wire 70 on the door?
if so, your payout relay won't work....but at least you proved the payout relay coil isn't blown.
I've mentioned a couple times your red/blue wire on the payout relay coil needs to be connected to wire 70.  Is that not making sense?

Yes, the 70 is at the door.
Lol, I’m new to this, I actually went back earlier today and reread all your post in this thread. And I understand now hat you said a couple days ago. My diode on the hopper cutoff is probable bad, and the resisters are wrong because they are in parallel and probably the wrong ohms or so. You had mentioned to jump the red/blue with a orange to bypass it. Maybe even use a paper clip or do it at the beau plug if it’s easier. Non of that made too much sense a couple days ago. Now it does.
I will jumper them tonight and report back.
It’s clear now, sorry for the delay wolftalk, I slowly learning and you have been wonderful and patient with me.

[wolftalk]

the paper clip jumper would be in the hopper cutoff relay socket ... pull out the hopper cutoff relay relay and you can usually insert a paper clip in the slots where the relay plugs into the socket.   Look at the wiring side of the socket to see where the red/blue and orange wires are. 


You can't put the relay back in, but you don't need to.


you could jumper wire 70 from the coil door directly onto the red/blue wire on the payout relay coil, but if things start working you'll probably want to close the door and play test the game, so a jumper like that is less convenient.


beau plugs are the black connectors between the hopper/cabinet and reel mech/cabinet.  The white plastic plugs are molex plugs.


you're doing fine ... there's always a learning curve and you haven't blown any fuses yet :-)

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk,


Would it be possible to temporarily replace the resistor with a 7 watt light.
Something like a small night light.


Just curious to know if that would be a possibly?

[Karloz25]

I jumped a paper clip. And powered it on, the hopper spot out a couple quarters then stopped, roughly around 8-10 quarters or so.
I noticed the tilt light was off.


I played a few games.
For a while I was winning but only the bell would sound one time and a “free play” would be available? It would let me pull the level and play. It didn’t spit out quarters on a win.
So I checked the hopper weight, and adjusted the nut to trigger the switch for the coin weight.
I played another times and hit, the hopper spit out 4 quarters and now it won’t accept quarters any more. I add coins and they go into the hopper but handle doesn’t release. Tilt light is back on, winners paid light is off.
I tried it with the door closed and open, I’ve pressed the cherry switch inside the unit top right. Did not help.


New problem, coins go in, but handle is stuck.


I cleaned all the leafs on the top cabinet, still did not fix the issue.
Pressing the coin switch at the door triggers the coil unit reset re. That’s it.

[wolftalk]

Wolftalk,


Would it be possible to temporarily replace the resistor with a 7 watt light.
Something like a small night light.


Just curious to know if that would be a possibly?

it it has around 47 ohms or resistance +/- 10%, then it should work.  A light bulb should be able to handle the current flow.  It may not light very much. 

I jumped a paper clip. And powered it on, the hopper spot out a couple quarters then stopped, roughly around 8-10 quarters or so.I noticed the tilt light was off.

all the 1088 schems I have show the only thing turning on the tilt light is a hopper cutoff relay switch.  You don't have the HCR installed, so the light should never come on unless the 1088-2 has another way to do it.

I played a few games.For a while I was winning but only the bell would sound one time and a “free play” would be available? It would let me pull the level and play. It didn’t spit out quarters on a win.

if you could pull the handle, the handle release relay didn't reset.  If it's still tripped at the end of a spin, the game won't pay anything because a handle release relay switch opens the payout circuit.   The bell still rings tho because there isn't a handle release relay switch in the bell circuit.


when the game doesn't pay, look to see if the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech is still tripped.  If it is, you'll need to determine if the problem is electrical or mechanical.


both the coin relay and the handle release relay should reset after the handle pull.  When a coin is inserted, the coin relay trips.  When the coin relay trips, the handle release relay trips as soon as the coin switch is back up.

I played another times and hit, the hopper spit out 4 quarters and now it won’t accept quarters any more. I add coins and they go into the hopper but handle doesn’t release. Tilt light is back on, winners paid light is off.I tried it with the door closed and open, I’ve pressed the cherry switch inside the unit top right. Did not help.New problem, coins go in, but handle is stuck.I cleaned all the leafs on the top cabinet, still did not fix the issue.Pressing the coin switch at the door triggers the coil unit reset re. That’s it.

if closing/releasing the coin switch keeps powering the coin unit reset relay, the handle release relay isn't tripping ... first thing to check is whether the coin relay tripped.  If it didn't, check the switch on the coin relay with blue/red wire 21-1 and white wire 50-1 on it.  Make sure it's closed when the coin relay is reset.  Wire 50-1 goes to the coin relay coil.


tilt light turning on is interesting .. you game must have a way to do that besides the hopper cutoff relay (or is your hopper cutoff relay reinstalled?)

[DavidLee]

Inspect the coin in relay bottom left of the reels mechanism.
This is the first thing activated after the coin in switch.

Also check the coin in switch.
If the trip wire is bent and or dragging on the guide slot this could be a problem.

[Karloz25]

Wolftalk, can you point out which wires your talking about? Do I test the blue red wire with orange too? Or with white? Or white with orange? I didn’t see a white wire...


I recorded a video of what’s happening, sorry I poked around stuff I shouldn’t, I still don’t know better, I didn’t die, so that’s a good thing...
https://youtu.be/QS8hnYqkwz8


Also PLEASE, I need help identifying these items in red boxes. It will help me not get lost. I hear coin relay and coin switch, etc... Thai would help me. Please...










Thank you!

[DavidLee]

Nice photos, could you post clear close up photos of the handle release switches and coin in relay switches.
Would like to see the coil and contacts, but mainly the contacts for alignment.


Photo of has two of the main components to release the handle.

[DavidLee]

With all the components in the machine there is a lever
(see photo) that will release the handle.

But first try pulling the the J bar that is associated with the air cylinder.
Pull it towards the front of the machine.
See if that makes a difference as to releasing the handle.

The machine might just to be cycled through a few times.

[Karloz25]

Nice photos, could you post clear close up photos of the handle release switches and coin in relay switches.
Would like to see the coil and contacts, but mainly the contacts for alignment.


Photo of has two of the main components to release the handle.

I pulled the J bar and nothing happen. It’s locked.


I released the handle by pulling the bar towards me. And spun it. The reels then stopped and it gave me some coins. Then I inserted some coins and again the handle is locked. It did register them upstairs, but I didn’t hear or see the lights for the stepper of the 2nd and 3rd coin. Just like the YouTube video I posted yesterday, it doesn’t step, I manually on the video flicked to the 3rd coin. Hope that made sense.
Hear are close of photos you requested.

I forgot to mention, if I release the handle again and spin it, and hit, it doesn’t pay out. But then again I didn’t manually step the coin unit. I had just triggered the coin in switch on the door.

[DavidLee]

The machine appears to be over medicated with lube.
Excessive lube my foul the contacts.
Lightly clean all the contacts on the left side of the reels.
Actuate the mechanisms to be sure the contacts are opening and closing.
A good sign is when the opposing contact gets pushed back slightly.


Test.


Then do the same for the handle release switches.
Actuate the mechanism as to be sure contacts are opening and closing.


Test.

[Karloz25]

Thanks, I will clean it all that grease later tonight.

[wolftalk]

poking around is always fun :-)


here's a video of how the handle release relay works.  Note the relay is mechanically reset by the rod that comes up during the handle pull.   When the reel mech is in the game, it operates the lever that lets the handle return to the top.


bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Handle_Release.m4v


the relay on the right that you are manually closing (pushing the armature plate onto the coil top) is the coin unit step-up relay.  It powers when you insert coins AFTER the handle release relay has tripped to release the handle.


the handle release trips AFTER the coin relay trips and the coin switch has returned to the top position.


david already posted a pic labelling the coin relay, but I took your image and added text to label the rest of the stuff your circled.  Note the latch mechanism circled in purple ... works just like the handle release relay.  The relay is mechanically reset and the latch ledge hooks onto the armature plate.  When the coil is powered, the armature plate pulls out of the ledge and allows the switches to all shift position.


in any case, the coin relay must trip on the first coin or nothing else really happens.

second image below is the wire color code chart from the schematic.   If it's not clear, the critical thing is wire 21-1 and 21-2 are NOT the same wire.  They are both blue with a red tracer and they looks exactly the same, but they are used in different circuits.  Don't assume that because a wire is the same color in two different places in the game it's the same wire.
next post ...what I'd do to check things. 

[wolftalk]

first thing below is the schem.  I'm a big schem guy :-)  Once ya learn how to interpret it, you can figure out how the machine works.


the circuit to power the coin relay is highlighted.  Every switch in the circuit except the coin switch is normally closed (NC), where normally is after the game is over.   When the coin pushes the coin switch trip wire down, wire 30 is connected to wire 23-1 and now ya have a closed path from wire 30 to the coil.  Since the other side of the coil is directly attached to the 50V power wire 70, the coil powers.

there's two possible reasons the handle is not releasing:


1] the coin relay is not tripping
2] the handle release relay is not getting powered after the coin relay trips

if your coin relay is tripping but the handle release isn't, ignore all the below and move on to the next post

if your problem is the coin relay not powering and tripping the mechanism so the switches shift right like in the second pic below, then you got a huge help because the coin unit reset relay IS powering (the green circuit which branches off the yellow).  That means the coin switch, handle release relay switch and snap switch are all working right, and the only things left are the coin relay switch and the coin relay coil.


the coin relay switch I think is the one circuit in purple on the second pic.  The white wire on the coil (teal arrow) goes to one of the coin relay switch blades and the other blade will be blue/red. 


reset the coin relay if necessary and check the contacts on that switch.  They are large tungsten contacts, so it's ok to file them to remove pitting and make the contact faces parallel to each other.  Also check that the moving right blade is deflecting the left blade a little when the coin relay is reset. 


to manually reset the coin relay, push on the bar pointed to by the purple arrow.  To trip the relay, push the armature plate onto the coil top.   Do the reset/trip operation a few times and watch the switches.  Look for ones that obviously aren't closing or barely touch.  Those you need to bend the blades where they enter the stacks to make them work right.


generally you don't bend the moving blade to adjust a switch, but occasionally you need to if the moving blade isn't travelling far enough.  In this case, the stationary blade on the left is snug against the movement limiting bar and the bar is straight, so the likely problem is either a cruddy switch or the moving blade on the right isn't applying enough pressure to the stationary blade to make a good contact.


if you wanted to probe around the circuit with a meter, you'd put one probe on wire 70 and the other in the circuit ... then hold down the coin switch and look for 50V.

[wolftalk]

if the coin relay is tripping but the handle release relay is not tripping, below is the schem. 


many switches in the circuit.  The pic a couple messages up labelled the coin relay, reel mech A and C switches (1 is the "bottom" switch in the stack).  You know where the payout relay is.  The dashpot switch is a vertical switch hanging down on the right side of the reel mech, and the handle release switch is on the handle release relay.


there's plug connections to the hopper and coin door also.


if you deposit the first coin and the coin relay trips, then you can:


1] voltmeter approach


one probe on wire 70, the other poking along the highlighted path until the 50V drops/disappears


2] jumper approach


one end of jumper on wire 30, other along the highlight path


3] inspection / shotgun approach


clean/check all the switches and plug connections in the path


4] it's usually the ... approach


davidlee can give you better info here, but I'd guess the problem is usually the coin relay switch or the handle release relay switch.


if you look at the full schem, you can see what other stuff is connected to various spots in the circuit and see if that works.  For example, payout needs the circuit to be closed up to wire 60-1.  Since you get payout ... at least somewhat ... then the coin switch, reel mech A-1 and C-1 are all good.

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk,


As I described in reply 51.


I would do this first, then go from there if the machine still doesn’t work.


Might turn out to be an odd circumstance in relation to what is going on.


Got to make sure the known / given is in proper order.

[Karloz25]

Before and after cleaning...







I did find 3 things:


These blue wires had the plastic scrapped off. I believe they made contact on the inside of the cabinet wall, there happens to be a screw there also. I taped them up with electrical tape.





I found a broken leaf, well not all the way detached, but barely on, this leaf is where the same blue wires connect to. I attempted to solder it closed. Hopefully that’s ok.









Also when I reassembled the switches for the coin in relay, I just wanted to make sure they were correct, as far as what needs to be open and close.
Here is a before the cleaning and after the cleaning and repair.







After reassemble, same issue occurred. Handle did it release.


Wolftalk, I have yet to try your suggestions, last night I spent cleaning and repairing the reels.
I will follow your steps tonight. Thank you!

[DavidLee]

Photos of a 1088 coin relay switch stack latched and unlatched.

Nice clean up on the machine.

Check for contact continuity in both positions.
Best to attach probs on the solder connection or as close to the wafer insulator as possible.
This will avoid a false positive reading.
Best to do each set of contacts at least two times.

[wolftalk]

huh ... are the contacts closing or is the limit bar making the connection?

in any case, the limit bar should be straight, not kinked to the right and certainly not touching the moving right blade.


none of the blades should have kinks in them.