Author Topic: E2000 cold boot (Read 6441 times)

maxf · « **on:** June 26, 2015, 02:34:20 PM »

The E2000 I have been working on is almost ready. I even have the cheesy sound-board working! The is one remaining problem that I have not been able to trace.

When cold booting (after being off for hours), it does not power up cleanly. This is manifest by one or more of: not holding the coin relay in, not latching the reels after a spin, or (my favorite) paying out all of the quarters in the hopper.

This is fixed by the reset button and/or the test #1 button. It does not appear to happen once the machine is warm.

This is hard to debug since I can only get it to occur once per 12 hours. I thought it might be related to the "delay" relay, and sure enough the delay relay had been jumpered out of the circuit. I restored it and it still behaves similarly. (What does this do if the machine also works without it?)

Has anyone seen such a symptom? Any hints where I might look next? Cpu? Memory? IO board? BTW, this is an E2000 machine with a 1000 CPU board.

Thanks.

Amechanic · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2015, 06:47:32 PM »

I would start by checking the conection of your ram board to the MPU.. I had some thing simular, but the machine tilted on first pull. I could move the ram board and it would play again. The ram board connectors go bad from battery acid..You could have a bad capasitor on the MPU at C3..
Gary

maxf · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2015, 11:49:18 AM »

The light bulbs finally arrived, so I am back working on this machine.

The problem certainly sounds similar to the one Amechanic described -- I also saw "tilt" when the reels failed to stop. I have already replaced all the electrolytic and tantalum caps.

I removed cleaned, and reseated all the connectors and chips on the MPU memory daughter board (it is a 1000 series MPU). I also touched up a couple of ugly looking solder joints on the ram connectors.

Probably a mistake, but I gave everything on the reel mech the same treatment. Some of connectors, like for the switches, were unbelievably dirty.

One thing I noticed while I had things apart was that the battery read low. Someone else has replaced the battery with a lithium one. I had checked the voltage before, and it seemed fine (I think it reads fine if tested shortly after the machine was on, but low if tested later). The battery either died a natural death, or was killed by the still active charging circuit This might explain the cold boot problem -- dragging the voltage down when the machine has been off for a while. . Am I correct in assuming that I can just remove the battery entirely?

After this, I appear to have made things much worse: now it will work for a game or two, but then it starts play normally, does not play sounds and does not stop the reels after the pull. This is not a cold boot problem, it is just a problem problem.

Paul · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2015, 07:53:02 PM »

The lithium cell needs to go as the charging circuit can cause the battery to leak or explode.
All I use is a3.6 volt cordless phone battery pack.

ramegoom · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2015, 08:12:56 PM »

Adjacent to the battery, there is a 100 ohm resistor. This is a current limiting resistor which directs the NiCAD batteries to charge during power-on. You can replace the battery with an equivalent NiMH style battery and it will work perfectly.

If your Lithium battery is not a rechargeable style, the resistor in place will eventually overheat it. You can use a standard Lithium battery but you MUST remove the resistor and install a diode (1N4002 or equivalent) on the board next to the resistor. It will then prevent charging the battery, but still use the 3.6v minus about 0.7v drop thru the diode to keep the memory alive.

Since the E2000 MPU boards don't have a piggybacked memory board like the E1000, you might try swapping the two RAM chips to see if the problem goes away. Otherwise, replacing them will be the only option.

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2015, 08:02:01 AM »

What error codes are you seeing?

maxf · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2015, 08:16:49 AM »

So my plan is:

1. Remove battery temporarily

2. Order a new battery and either use Nicad or (lithium and modify circuit).

3. Try swapping memory chips (this is an E1000 board with the piggyback board).

I'm not seeing any error codes. It works for a couple of pulls and then just spins the reels without sound or stopping. I believe the CPU is still working at this point: it will reset and go into tests. The two switches on the reel mech test okay under test #3. I'm wondering if it is something in on the reel board and interconnects. I have a scope, I just don't know where to start...

TIA

maxf · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2015, 12:45:19 PM »

I think I have it.

Cold boot: the battery was pulling voltage low. Battery is now removed. I will not know if this is really fixed until it has cooled overnight. Any particular reason not to just leave the battery out?

Problem with spinning reels: The kick switch had been reassembled incorrectly. The software must allow a couple of missed switches, but not a third. Odd.

Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement.

maxf · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2015, 08:08:36 AM »

Still not right. The original symptom of the first spin not stopping and tilting the machine has returned.

It seems like every time I remove and reinstall a board, the symptoms change. Still more bad contacts? Sockets?

Do I need a battery installed for proper operation?

I'll go ahead and order some new memory (and a battery?) just in case.

TIA

Amechanic · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2015, 04:22:18 PM »

The battery is only needed for the booking memory of the machine. Have you checked the condition of the edge connectors on the Ram board? They like to go bad being so close to the battery.

ramegoom · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:19:22 PM »

I think he said it's an E2000. The memory section is part of the main CPU board, but both of the chips are socketed:

Amechanic · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:03:01 PM »

He does have an E1000 MPU.. This is from his first post, last paragraph..

Has anyone seen such a symptom? Any hints where I might look next? Cpu? Memory? IO board? BTW, this is an E2000 machine with a 1000 CPU board.

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2015, 08:24:38 PM »

Have you lubricated the entire reel assembly ? There is a lot of linkage in there that can cause the reels not stop spinning and thus a tilt. There is two Black anodized cross shafts in the reel assembly, they need to spin freely by spinning with your fingers. If they do not you will get a tilt.

I would send ALL your boards to Dan for testing as the RAM board with the battery most likely corroded both edge connectors and the IC sockets and will need replaced?

Maybe the caps on the MPU are failing?

Could be bad solder joints and bad connector on the power supply.

ramegoom · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:24:12 PM »

^^ ah, my bad. I must have missed that. Yeah, the 1000 boards did have a problem with that piggyback board. Thanks for setting me straight Amechanic.

Paul · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:06:12 PM »

A quote from another post

"A lot of these Bally boards only make contact on one side of the Eproms legs.. Newer sockets have a better two sided connection."

maxf · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2015, 07:56:45 AM »

The reels have been lubed, and all electrolytic/tant caps, and the power supply board have been replaced. I'll send the boards in if I have to, but at this point I really want to find it myself.

I've cleaned all the contacts, sometimes more than once. The machine had sat for years in a salt-air environment, and there was lots of corrosion. Only minor-looking battery acid damage.

The memory board side contacts were nasty. I cleaned, sanded, and re-tinned the male parts.

At this point, the battery is out-of-circuit.

I've ordered new memory chips and chip sockets.

The symptoms are very consistent: turn the machine on. The machine does not boot cleanly and plays music and or relays with a stutter. Optionally, reset or test #1. On first pull, plays music but never stops the reels. Eventually tilts. At this point if you reset and test #1, the machine usually will play normally and continue to operate with no errors.

Does this still seem like a contact or memory problem?

Amechanic · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2015, 09:37:46 AM »

I'm guessing that you have checked your reel reader connection? I've heard of bad crimp connections on those plugs, but if your having relays chattering, that to me says you have a problem with your MPU..

maxf · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2015, 07:12:10 PM »

I tested more contacts via ohm meter and self tests. Everything appears to be okay, but of course that is not definitive.

I replaced the rom and rom sockets and things are greatly improved. It starts from cold without tilting.

It still makes some extraneous music and relay noises on boot that seems to indicate that something is still not powering up cleanly, but I think I'll live with that for a now. My guess is that there are other bad contacts (eprom, memory side contacts, etc.).

Thanks for all the help!

Amechanic · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2015, 08:45:51 PM »

Have you replaced the capacitors at C3, that one works with the relay, then you have C4, & C12.. I have found them bad on a few boards I've checked.

dhellis · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2015, 02:25:06 PM »

One thing you may want to check is the 7417 in U27, I have had a board or two where you get
relay chatter and then it stops. If you do not have the IC, swap it with the one in U24 and
see if you get different problems, or if the problem just goes away as a result of inserting, replacing
the chip. If you don't have or can not find a 7417 then you can use a 7407 as a direct replacement.

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Author Topic: E2000 cold boot (Read 6441 times)