Bally 742A Diagram

[Blake]

Hello,

I recently picked up a Bally 742A and while trying to understand the full function of the machine I came across the 'Service Instructions and Parts Catalog' which on page #4 MOTORS-COILS-SWITCHES
CIRCUIT FUNCTION CHART it lists a column for 'Location on Diagram'.  I do not see these locations anywhere in the exploded views of the machine and wondered if there was another diagram PDF I was missing?

Thanks
Blake

[wolftalk]

diagram = schematic

which 742A is it? ... there's hundreds of them :-)

if you don't have the serial/model number plate under the handle - or it's wrong - then codes stamped into the slotted reel index discs, any writing with sharpie on the internal parts, the m-645-xxx number on the payout counter and picture of entire front of the machine help narrow it down.

there's a revised 100 manual from 10/1/1966 if you don't have that one ... you can find it in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/ along with the 1000 manual if you have a money honey machine.  Some 742A paperwork is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ under the model numbers.  I do have a lot more, but they are pretty similar so I just put a few on the above site.

if you have a late model 742A, then the information in the 2400 manual may be more accurate.

[Blake]

Thank you for the info.  Not positive of the type as its serial plate was removed.  I will look for the other identifiers you mentioned and get back to you.  Here are some pics that may help.  I know its not a money honey.

[wolftalk]

the Barney's bar symbol helps. 

those reel tapes could be m-220-[816, 817, 818] which go with game code BC-ANY-[1-3].  Either those code numbers or something similar to p-484-[663, 664, 665] would be stamped into the left side of the slotted reel index discs.

if so, that would make it a 742A-259

the payout counter  under the hopper I don't know ... don't have the w-923-101 diagram.  A picture of the entire wiper side including the wiring harness at the bottom would help.

I don't have paperwork for the game ... the payout counter, tapes and index discs are unique to barneys casino, tho they made a 791, 794, 808, and 809 machines with those same parts.

w-923-101 is the bally engineering drawing number.  The payout counter disc itself is likely used on other games, it's just the way it was wired for barney's is different, so it gets its own drawing.  Maybe it's an M-645-96?

the bally belly glass wouldn't be original, and there was probably a top sign with more payouts.

[Blake]

All great info.  You have been doing this for a while.  I've attached some additional photos.  Will get more info this weekend.  The machine was none working when I picked it up a few weeks ago.  I've restored older pure mechanical slots and trade stimulators.  As well as many EM pinball and arcade.  Currently I have the exterior cleaned up and starting to look nice.  Still needs some finishing touches.  I did a rough cleaning of the mech as it was completely seized with old grease.  Now I'm going back through it in more detail as it cycles but is still not running smoothly or with the power to kick the reels appropriately and stop them consistently.  Plan on doing the same with the hopper, handle mech and other steppers.  I did thoroughly clean the electrical contacts and leaf switches which has me headed in the right direction.

[wolftalk]

when the grease is really crudded up, it may be easier to take the reel mech apart. 

however, if you want to try the quick approach, use something like brake cleaner and try to flush out the old grease on things that pivot on shafts. 

Relube with something like triflow instead of grease ... it tends to penetrate and soften old grease.

some of the unpinned parts on the shafts can float horizontally so they align themselves.  In particular, the reel wiper arms ... if those can't shift sideways a bit, then they tend to bind in the slots in the metal plate.

there poorly shot and badly edited video in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/ ... the one about how reels spin may help.

compared to most pinballs, the schematic for most if the 742A models is pretty simple.  I'm guessing you won't have much trouble dealing with any electrical gremlins.   While the payout counter and reel wiring will be different on your machine, you can draw them out if you needed to ... see one of the w-1041-839-841.png files in the 742A-261 material for an example of how bally did it, and the same info is on the schematic.

the coin relay and handle release relay are mechanically reset trip relays, and the payout counter step-up is done mechanically by the coins exiting the hopper.

[Blake]

Initially I did soak with break cleaner and was successful in loosening all the joints and getting the mech to start to cycle.  However it still has too much resistance at certain joints so I have begun disassembling, cleaning inside of an ultrasonic cleaner with degreaser, reassembling and adding new oil.  On my antique slots I use a light weight sewing machine oil for most of the joints and moving parts.  And super lube for some of the more heavy duty spots.  I've used 3n1 in a few spots as well.  Do you recommend the same for these EM slot mechs?

I've got more photos I'm going to load so you can get a better idea of what type of machine it is.  I found a few hand written numbers as well as a couple spots that was stamped/printed but not as much as we expected.  Curious if they were never stamped for the Barney machines?  As I break it down further I will continue to be on the lookout.

[Blake]

More pics

[Blake]

More pics

[wolftalk]

Initially I did soak with break cleaner and was successful in loosening all the joints and getting the mech to start to cycle.  However it still has too much resistance at certain joints so I have begun disassembling, cleaning inside of an ultrasonic cleaner with degreaser, reassembling and adding new oil.  On my antique slots I use a light weight sewing machine oil for most of the joints and moving parts.  And super lube for some of the more heavy duty spots.  I've used 3n1 in a few spots as well.  Do you recommend the same for these EM slot mechs?

that works.  Grease and oil is a "pick your favorite" kinda thing ... as long as ya agree that wd-40 in the blue can is not a lubricant :-)  wd-40 makes other things that are good lubricants.

I like to use stuff that doesn't harden, doesn't tend to form a shellac, and doesn't significantly collect crud.  There's probably no such thing, so I pretend tri-flow with ptfe checks all the boxes.   A heavier grease in the gear teeth would probably be better, but not so much in the stuff on shafts since it will eventually cake up.

 

I've got more photos I'm going to load so you can get a better idea of what type of machine it is.  I found a few hand written numbers as well as a couple spots that was stamped/printed but not as much as we expected.  Curious if they were never stamped for the Barney machines?  As I break it down further I will continue to be on the lookout.

the 742A-259 seems pretty likely.  The reel wiper arms have 25(maybe a 9) written on them in sharpie, and the codes on the index discs are ok.

the only thing guaranteed to be there are codes on the index discs and the part numbers on the reel tapes - you have to remove the top of the tape from the tin to see the part numbers tho since they are on the bottom of the tapes which are under the tops when installed. 

the m-645-xxx number will always be on the payout counter disc, but those discs were used on many different machines so can't uniquely identify a machine unless it was a unique disc.

the common places things were written in sharpie were on the reel wiper boards, the wiper arms, the metal on the front of the reel mech, the metal framework on the hopper and the top insert panel for machines that have one (the 742s don't).

[Blake]

I will pull the reel tapes to identify the numbers.

Do you have any specific info or manuals for the 259?  Do you know what years they were manufactured?  Would it be considered an early model 742A?

I'm trying to locate an image that has all the parts and switches labeled with there corresponding name so I can see what roll they play.  I'm curious what the bottom micro switch on the inside of the door is used for?  The one above it is the coin switch.

Thanks
Blake

[wolftalk]

all the 742A models are mostly the same.

the reel tapes, slotted index discs, reel wiper wiring and payout counter varies with game type (fruit, money honey, triple bar, jackpot only, lightning, etc.), but the rest of the machine is pretty much the same.

your reel tapes are barney's casino specific and the corresponding index discs afaik were only used on barney's club machines on your machine as well as barney's club specific models of 791, 794, 808, 809 machines

unfortunately, I don't have paperwork for any of them, so you'd need to do some work to determine why they used unique index discs.  The work would mostly be drawing the wiring diagrams of the reel wiper boards and verifying wiring on th payout counter.  The reel tape and index disc definitions I have, so it's possible with the reel wiper wiring, payout counter wiring and the pay table on the glass to calculate the payback percentage of the game and see if it was better or worse than similar machines.

there's manuals in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/ - the 742A's had a couple manuals that had lots of theory of ops details and the usual exploded parts diagrams.  The 742A was the beginning of the EM slot machine boom, so it was pretty extensively documented.