809-22B Underpaying or not paying at all on lower payouts

[markpurc]

Bally 809-22b nickel, three reels (see the pictures) -

What I've tried cleaning all the wipers, making sure that the contacts are in the right spot.  They payout reel resets to 0 smoothly.  I went over the rest of the forums and even tried the troubleshooting tips from the sticky posts in this forum (thanks Old Reno!!!). It all checks out to be working properly, but for some reason the payouts are:

Cherry X X = 0- Should be 2
Cherry Cherry X = 0 Should be 5
Orange Orange bar = 0 Should be 10
Orange Orange Orange = 0 Should be 10
Plum Plum Bar - 8 (!!  Why?) Should be 14
Plum Plum Plum - 8 Should be 14
Bell Bell Bell (or bar) - Nothing (?) Should be 18
Bar Bar Bar - ($1.85) Should be $2.50
...the rest payout some underpayment

I'll keep troubleshooting and update this post as I make any discoveries, but in the meantime, does anyone have any places I should check first?

[DavidLee]

Try stepping up the payout unit manually about 20 times.
Then release it by depressing the reset coil plunger.
The spiral cam should return rapidly. If its sluggish, cleaning might help.

[wolftalk]

there isn't an 8 pay trace on the payout counter, so either the traces are cruddy or the wipers aren't resetting all the way.

or you don't have the usual payout counter in there.  If cleaning the traces and doing what david said doesn't make it work a lot better, please post a pic of the payout counter disc when the wipers are reset and when they are stepped up 20 times.

the model is really 809-ZZB :-)  All the docs for it are on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ if you don't have them.

[rdaniel]

The spring on the 100 tooth counter disc might be too lose and not have enough tension to return the fingers to the proper reset, the two trace.

[markpurc]

You all are awesome, thanks for the help on this!!!

I tried stepping up the payout unit 20 times (using my hand to turn the red coil), then releasing it by depressing the reset coil plunger at the top of the unit.
It seems to work manually (resets correctly as far as I can tell), but after an 8-payout (3 plums), the payout does not reset.  I have to press the latch at the top of the payout unit to do it manually. 

Here are photos of the unit where the payout unit is reset.

[markpurc]

...and here is a photo of the unit after I clicked it up 20 times, followed by a pic of what I press to reset it manually. 

[markpurc]

Also, in case it helps, here's a picture of the back of the unit:

[DavidLee]

Good work making progress.
Most likely there are some dirty contacts keeping the unit from resetting.
Clean the ones circled and any other pertaining to resetting.

There is a switch / contacts on the left side of the reels I believe that are in the reset circuit.
Don

[wolftalk]

"There is a switch / contacts on the left side of the reels I believe that are in the reset circuit."

right again.  Look for reel mech B switch with yellow and orange/black wires on the blades.  B switch is the horizontal one between two sets of vertical switches on left side of mech. 

if the count unit is resetting, the B switch is ok ... tho the plug connection from it to the hopper may not be.  You'll need to manually step up the count unit to test if it resets.  It only steps up when a jackpot lockup happens.

the only other switch in the circuit is a payout counter '0' switch, which is the one on the front that the gray thing is opening.  You can test by jumpering it closed ... all the switch does is prevent the payout counter reset coil firing when the payout counter is already reset.  Reduces wear-n-tear.

if B switch and '0' switch seem ok, time to test the coil.  You can either use an ohmeter and make sure the '0' switch is open when measuring, or use a jumper wire.  For the jumper, clip one end on the black/white wire on the reset coil and shove the hopper back in the game.  Touch other end of the jumper to the yellow wire on the coin switch and the reset coil should fire.

[markpurc]

Ok, based on the suggestions, I first took a closer look at the Payout counter unit.  I cleaned the contacts but had a hard time trying to figure out if it was correctly set up or not.  In other words, are the metal plates touching where they should be touching and apart where they should be apart?

 I took 3 close-up pictures below, one with the step up plunger in, and one of it out, then a pic of the reset pawl switch.  If anyone can see if I'm missing something, I'd appreciate it!  Next, I'll look at the reel mech B switch with yellow and orange/black wires in the next post.

[markpurc]

Ok, I checked the B Switch as well, it looks like it is connected and set up properly as far as I can tell, what do you think?

[DavidLee]

Try moving the lower set of contacts until there is space between the upper contacts.
Lower contacts should stay in the closed position.

Do this when the armature with the white nylon wheel is in the retracted position.

[wolftalk]

Ok, I checked the B Switch as well, it looks like it is connected and set up properly as far as I can tell, what do you think?

can't tell.

push the black timer link (red arrow) toward the back of the mech with your finger until the cupped follower (yellow arrow) goes up and is sitting on the top of timer link at green arrow.  Watch and see if the top blade of switch B is lifted up off the rigid blade beneath it after the contacts touch.

in other words, look at it when it's like in the second pic.   My switch has more blades, but same idea. 

the key thing is you want to see the top blade deflect upwards.  If it just looks like the contacts are touching, they may not be reliably.

[markpurc]

Thanks for the tips WolfTalk, yes, it appears that the top blade of switch B is lifted up off the blade beneath it.  I took a picture, hopefully it is clear enough.

[markpurc]

Also, DavidLee, when you say to make that space, do you mean when plugged in; when the armature with the white nylon wheel is in the retracted position?  Do you mean bend the metal until there is a space between the contacts?

[DavidLee]

If the contacts indicated by the red arrow is in the closed position all the time.
Then adjust the lower set to allow the contacts in question to open.

First manually operate the the unit as to observe the contacts movement.
The lever with the white bushing pushes the blades opening one set of contacts and closing the other.
Contacts need to open and close for the machine to operate properly.

Most likely with a well lighted, in focus photo of the open and closed positions.
I could possibly tell if it is working properly.

[wolftalk]

Thanks for the tips WolfTalk, yes, it appears that the top blade of switch B is lifted up off the blade beneath it.  I took a picture, hopefully it is clear enough.

dunno what you're taking pics with, but a resolution at least 1200 pixels wide would help so it can be zoomed in on.  If it's an iphone but not the latest model, you need good lighting.  iphones models under 11 take lousy low light pictures.

it doesn't look like you have overtravel ... or not much.  The diagram below is exaggerated, but when you have one of the fatter movement limit blades, it's usually easy to see how much lift you get on the short blade after the contacts touch.

if you want to test:

1] remove reel mech
2] jumper the B switch closed
3] install reel mech
4] remove hopper, manually step up the payout counter a few times, install hopper
5] turn on power.  The payout counter should immediately reset.

if that works but the payout counter doesn't reset during the reel spin, then your B switch is not working right (or R&Ring the mechs made poor plug connections work ... briefly).

if the payout counter reset coil sticks on during the above test, then the payout counter isn't resetting all the way or the zero switch is not opening

if the payout counter does nothing, then the zero switch is stuck open or the plug connections between reel mech<->cabinet or cabinet<->hopper are cruddy.  You can thump/wiggle the reel mech and/or hopper to see if the payout counter resets.  If it does, the plug connections need a scrub.

btw, the switch david circled in post 7 is the "reset pawl" switch.  It just turns on/off the winner paid light.   I don't think there is an upper set of contacts, but it's hard to see in the pic (have I complained enough yet? :-))

the "payout counter" switch in the payout counter reset coil circuit is on the spiral side of the payout counter and is often called the zero switch.  The gray plastic piece opens the switch when the counter is reset, and the switch should be closed when the payout counter is not reset.