Bally 1093 Top Hat arrow issue

[sweiger]

Hello

Thank you guys for all the valuable stuff in this place.

I have an issue with a 1093 danish Top Hat: I can't get the top arrows to advance towards the 400/300 pays.
They simply do not move when a coin is inserted.
I bought the machine knowing of the problem, and thought a friend and I could solve it, but alas..
I have tested the solenoid that should be activated to advance the top arrows. It works fine.
We have narrowed down the issue to be in the reel mech, because in my friend's Top Hat (which works fine),
the issue does appear when we put my reel mech in his cabinet.

It should advance the arrows the moment you insert a coin, so I suspect the coin relay on the reel mech, but I can't see anything obvious wrong with it.
Does someone know which one of the 3 leads from the coin switch in the door, should carry the "advance arrows signal" to the reel mech?
The lead's colors are: orange w/ green (74),  blue w/ red (21)   and gray w/red (91).

I'd really appriciate it if someone could help me out here, many thanks in advance  

[wolftalk]

on some of the games plugs can be moved to enable/disable some of the features.


usually the plugs are in the top section of the machine mounted on a bracket on the back.


either of you guys have the schematic (and probably other paperwork)?  I'm looking for stuff to scan/have scanned and make available for free download. 


without the schematic you'd need to do some digging.  Most likely there is a stepper unit in the top section of the game that is keeping track of the arrows and choosing the lamps to light.  Find that and look at the wire colors on the  step-up coil.  One wire is solid orange wire 70 - that's the power wire and isn't interesting.  The other wire is the one you care about.   See if you can figure out where it goes.


if you find a wire the same color elsewhere in the game, it MAY NOT be the same wire.  They used the same color wire in different circuits.


the only schem I have for a danish model machine is for the 1103.  You can grab it from http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1103 ... it's the w-1046-1893 file(s) - choose your preferred format.

[sweiger]

Thanks for trying Wolftalk, but the issue is not in the top section.
The stepper solenoid works fine, and when my reel section is put in another (fine working) machine, the issue does appear and arrows are not moving.
So, somewhere in my reel mech there's a flaw, the question is where...?

[wolftalk]

it's not the stepper solenoid itself you care about, you want to find what is powering it.  Verify on the working game that the unit is stepped when a coin drops.

there are relays on the reel unit.  If you're lucky and one has a switch blade with the same wire color as the step up solenoid, check that switch.



the step-up solenoid must only be pulsed.  If it is held powered, it will burn up.  That means if a relay switch is driving it, either the relay can't stay powered or there needs to be another switch in the circuit that disconnects the solenoid after it's powered.  That other switch will change the wire color you care about.


it could also be a switch on a motor driven cam if your game has that.  See if the motor powers when a coin is dropped and see what the working game does.


if you are getting stuck and can't physically trace the wire from the step-up solenoid to the reel unit, I'd do one of:


1] got a decent ohmeter?  Remove the reel unit, clip one wire to the non-orange wire on the step-up solenoid in the cabinet and poke all the reel unit socket positions looking for a pin with zero ohms.  See what the wire color/pin position is and follow it on the reel unit.    A reading of a few ohms is not interesting ... that would be a circuit path through the solenoid coil and other stuff.


2] unsolder the non-orange wire from the step-up coil so you don't have to worry about circuit paths through coils/lamps/etc. and use a meter/continuity tester to do [1] above. 


I assume you don't have a schematic?

[sweiger]

Many thanks, I will try (2) and see where it takes me. I have borrowed the scematic, but it's very faded, and I don't know how to read it anyway..

[wolftalk]

the worst case is a second switch is in the circuit path between the step-up solenoid and the plug so no pin position will show continuity.


if you can take pictures of the flattened schematic with the best lighting you can get and highest possible resolution, email them to schem_errors@cdyn.com and I'll try and piece it together.   Lots of overlapping pictures is ideal.


for your problem, the step-up coil will be one of the coil symbols attached to wire 70 (lower fat black line) and will probably say "<something> S.U. coil".


do you have access to a copy or blueprint shop that can take a high resolution "large format" scan of the schematic and give you the uncompressed tif/png output (typically 200MB+)?  A color scan is ideal.  You can see things on a scan that isn't obvious to the eye, especially after using some image processing filters.

[sweiger]

I found continuity from step-up solenoid yellow/white wire down to left beau plug in cabinet, top row no.7 from left (gray wire).
It connects to the reel mech and continues as yellow/white in reel mech. I then followed it to the relay pack on back of reel mech, where it is in contact with a yellow/green wire, which in turn is connected to the same beau plug, lower row, 1st from left, when reel mech is viewed from the back.

This is as far as I could do, but I'm no wiser anyway.I have sent you pics of the schematic, hope you can get something out of it.

[wolftalk]

your game doesn't agree with the schematic. 


however, the schematic looks like it has a wiring change on it.  They "tied" the yellow/white wire (35) on the doubler unit step-up coil directly to brown/yellow wire 63-3 on the handle release relay coil.


when the handle release relay gets tripped due to coin insertion, the doubler unit steps up at the same time.


is there a label on the relay where your yellow/white wire gets connected to the yellow/green wire (yellow/green would be 34 or 34-x on the schematic)?  Assuming that switch is working well, you'd have to figure out where the yellow/green wire is going.


got pics of what relays you have in the cabinet and on the reel mech?  in particular, is there a 25c or 1 kroner relay?  That's where a yellow/green wire went on the 1103.


in any case, if you want to try it, leave the yellow/white wire disconnected from the doubler unit step-up coil and run a jumper wire from the handle release coil brown/yellow wire to the double unit step-up coil instead.  Verify the double unit steps and most important, the step-up solenoid does not stay powered.  Then your game will match the schem you have.

[sweiger]

Wolftalk, thanks so much :)Tomorrow I will try the disconnect yellow/white & make jumper wire as per your instruction, hope that works.

[sweiger]

Fixed:
Soldered a new wire to the black/yellow wire on the coin relay solenoid, and pulled it up to the arrow unit solenoid, via an unused pin on the reel mech beau plug. Unsoldered the original not working yellow/white wire from arrow unit.
 The coin relay acts in the same way, i.e. only an ultra short energizing.

I know it is not the most pro fix, but hey, it works