Bally 1111-10: What is this button for?

[NF6X]

I've been studying every book, diagram, and document I can find, but I have not yet figured out what this button inside the cabinet of my new 1111-10 does. It's a nickel machine, three reels, one line, and 1-3 coins played. Can anybody teach me what it is for?

[wolftalk]

what wire colors on the button? 

if yellow and grey/orange, it's probably a reset button to repower the hopper cutoff relay - used when the hopper ran out of coins to restart a pay after a fill.

interesting machine ... the early 11xx slots were lowboy models with no top compartment.  If you'd care to email highest possible resolution pics of the game and insides to slotpics@cdyn.com, that'd be great.  Especially pics of the entire top insert board (lamp side and well as the functional stuff behind).

the oddest thing is the use of the chromed upper frame.  That style cabinet was common before 1971 or so, while the 11xx stuff didn't show up until 1975ish.

the reel tapes are probably m-222-[829-831], but that's all the info I have on the machine. 

[NF6X]

I am at work, and will need to dig deeper when I get home tonight. I will be happy to help identify my machine’s configuration. I can tell you that the index wheels are 684-471, 684-472, and 684-473. Is there a way to verify the reel strip numbers without removing them from the reels?

I’ve tried running emptying the hopper and triggering a payout to test the safety timer, and I got the payout to happen after refilling by just resetting the safety timer. My machine has the bar for resetting the safety timer without removing the hopper.

If my mystery button is a hopper reset, what sequence of operations should I perform to force needing a reset and then test the button?

My machine is missing the coin lockout armature, and I have one on the way from eBay. I’ve seen more than one mentions online of the armature being missing. Why do they get removed? It seems undesirable to me for the machine to keep swallowing coins once it’s fully coined, and for coins to go to the cash box chute with the power off.

[wolftalk]

the only place reel tape part numbers are are printed is on the "underlap" section of the strip ... the bottom of the strip that is covered by the top when wrapped around the tin.  The only way to see the number is uncrimp the top of the strip and remove enough of the tape to see the printing.  Not worth the trouble.

I put the definition files for the tapes and index discs in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ under the 1111-10/ folder so you can compare the tape symbols/order to those files.

my docs don't go beyond model 1111-1 and both the 1111 and 1111-1 were 20 stop machines.  It wasn't unusual to have some model variants with more stops tho.

the game code r-mult-dice-x is consistent between the tapes and index discs ... the main unknown is whether it was made in that cabinet or was rehoused from a low boy cabinet.  Doesn't matter functionally.  If you ever find paperwork, give me a shout.  If you're still around vegas, maybe KLAR might have something.  If you do go there, I'd love to see pics of what they have in their paperwork files :-)

[NF6X]

I left Vegas decades ago! Now I’m in SoCal.

I might take a peek at the tail of one of the strips. The tape on my left reel is ever so slightly out of alignment with the other two, and it makes my eyelid twitch.

[wolftalk]

I wonder if LA slots has anything for paperwork.  Generally tho, any multiplier machine of similar era would likely have pretty similar control circuits ... stuff like a 1090 or 1112.

definitely interested to hear/see if the top insert assembly is bally or home-made/modified.  If it's not bally with the trapezoidal wood lamp dividers, that would be a hint that it was assembled from parts.

[NF6X]

I'm sorry for the slow reply. Work has kept me distracted.

So far I have not seen anything that suggests to me that my machine has been cobbled together from parts. The only obvious modifications I've seen so far are removal of the coin acceptor lockout armature (why?!), a short wire what was cut between the coin acceptor lockout coil and an adjacent door casting ground screw (the coil still seems to be operating normally), and the odd random incorrect replacement bulb.

Here are photos of the top insert. I'll email larger photos as requested.

[wolftalk]

The only obvious modifications I've seen so far are removal of the coin acceptor lockout armature (why?!)

usually because it was buzzing annoyingly.  The other solution is disconnect the coil and stick a piece of tape over the hole in the back of the coin mech so the armature tab can't poke into the mech and deflect the coins.

does look like the game is factory and someone is selling an 1111 on ebay - or at least parts of one - and their picture has the same cabinet with the chrome top bezel.   I guess bally resurrected that style (or used up some inventory).

[NF6X]

The armature which deflects coins to the hopper instead of the cash box chute buzzes enough that I don’t think the coin reject armature deletion is helping much. I do want to reduce the buzzing and humming as much as I can, but I want my machine fully operational, too.

[wolftalk]

to fix the buzz, remove any dimples in the armature plate and burrs on the coil top.   You may have to file the coil top flat or replace the coil (M-37-2700 ... $12 at pinball resource). 

the diverter coil is FE-33-2600 or FC-33-2600 or E-184-269 ... 'course, most people don't have enough coins in the machine to need the diverter or a stand with a hole where the overflow coins could dump into :-)

the hack is stick tape or something similar on the coil top (or armature bottom) to dampen the vibration.  Eventually the tape will wear thru and possibly stick the armature in place ... then you clean it off and repeat.

nothing electrical should be connected to the chassis/frame except the mains ground wire.  If someone connected a wire from a 50V coil lug to the frame, you'd want to get rid of that.

[NF6X]

If I recall correctly, the wire looked factory. I’ll photograph it when I get home.

The machine came with one of those reproduction ice box cabinets as a stand. The cabinet is unmodified, but I am considering turning it into a permanent stand with a cash box hole and power switch. I tried to get enough nickels to fill the machine the day before I picked it up, but my credit union could only spare $20. Eventually I will shut up my buzzing diverter thingy by filling the hopper, but not quite yet.

[DavidLee]

The diverter plate might just need re-alignment. As they can easily get knocked out of position.

[NF6X]

After filing, bending, and cleaning the diverter plate and the face of its coil core as suggested, it just makes a gentle coil hum instead of an annoying armature buzz. It won’t even make the hum once I get enough nickels to fill the hopper.

The replacement coin reject armature also just hums, and my machine’s coining finally works the way it is supposed to. It actually quieted down the machine, because the coin reject coil was making parts of the coin acceptor intermittently buzz without the armature there to close the magnetic circuit.

I replaced the jackpot reset cylinder since my machine didn’t come with the reset key, and I should be getting my replacement door lock cylinder in a day or three. My new machine is working pretty nicely now!

I haven’t figured out the button yet, but I’ll get around to that eventually.

[wolftalk]

I haven’t figured out the button yet, but I’ll get around to that eventually.

wire colors on the button?  yellow and grey/orange?

do you have a "hopper cutoff relay"?  Usually there's a resistor and 50uF 150V capacitor connected to one side of the coil.  You need to look at the details tho as the delay relay also has a capacitor, but that one is typically 30uF 250V

a quick test is:
- turn off the machine after a spin
- manually release the handle, spin, and set up a winner
- turn on the machine

if the game doesn't pay immediately, push the button.  If it pays then, the button is the reset switch for the hopper cutoff relay.

[NF6X]

One wire looks tan, and the other looks like slate blue/gray with brown stripes. Or maybe the colors have browned over the last 45 years and the wires are coated with stinky casino smoke?

I tried your recommended test. The machine payed immediately when I turned the power back on.

I only see one capacitor in the hopper so far, but I'll need to dump the coins and get it on my workbench to study it more closely. I'll probably have to trace the wires from the button, too, because I don't know how to recognize aged Bally wire colors yet.

[wolftalk]

the yellow wire can look tan ... tan wasn't a wire color used in the machines, so the tan ones are either yellow, brown, white (+nicotine) or badly faded orange or red ... so only half the possible colors can look tan :-) 

look at the payout relay.  One lug conventionally has a grey/yellow wire on it, and the other is either orange or red/blue (typically).

if you have orange, you don't have a hopper cutoff relay.  If you have red/blue, the other end of the red/blue wire would go to a normally open switch on the hopper cutoff relay and the mating blade would have the orange wire.   The hopper cutoff relay needs to be powered for the payout relay to power.

disabling the hopper cutoff relay isn't uncommon as a problem in the circuit kills payout, so the hack is wire the payout relay coil lug to orange wire 70 directly and the HCR isn't doing anything.  Sometimes the problem is the 50uF has gotten old and failing to hold a charge, so the payout stops when the first coin pops out.   The fix is replace the capacitor, but it's faster to disable the HCR completely and you save a few bucks (shipping costs more than the cap).

[NF6X]

I’ll have to study everything because I don’t know which relay is which inside these machines yet. I just wish that pressing the mystery button would make the machine stop smelling like a casino!

[wolftalk]

someone local to me just got in touch with a machine needing fixing ... serial plate says it's an 809-B, which it isn't  :-)

this game has an old style hopper and no button.  It could just be an 809 converted to a 1111 or an early 1111 with the old style hopper - possible as the new/snow hopper appeared in 1976.  If someone ordered an 1111 well after 1976 it likely would have the snow hopper and other control circuit updates like the hopper cutoff relay.

[NF6X]

The inspection sticker on my machine’s hopper looks consistent with the hopper being original to my machine. Same model number, and inspected about a month before the date stamped on the external badge if I recall correctly. It will be interesting to learn if anything has been changed in it since it was manufactured. I’m sure I’ll be able to figure out the button’s function eventually if whatever it does is still present in the machine. I just haven’t had a chance to get to know the wiring that well yet. It’s fun learning what makes it all tick. I suppose I could take a picture of the button’s wires to share, but if you look at something vaguely brown then you’ll get a pretty good idea of what it looks like.

I’m happy that there are other nerds like me who are fascinated by esoteric details of old machines like this.

Anyway, my machine seems to be working pretty well. It was underpaying on cherries at first, but that seems to have fixed itself. I presume there were just dirty contacts which resumed working after being cycled. I do plan to properly clean and lubricate everything, but it’s nice that my machine doesn’t have any big problems. It consistently eats my nickels just like when it was new!

[wolftalk]

your machine was built in 1980 - assuming the serial number plate is correct - it would have all the updated circuits in it. 

the hopper cutoff relay would probably be on the hopper.  The relay mounted in the hole in the front of the hopper is usually the delay relay.  It also has a capacitor, so look for something similar elsewhere on the hopper. 

the payout relay is likely on the back of the hopper ... I'd look at the coil on that and see what the wire colors are (send/post a pic if you like).