S plus Error code 21 issue.

[Classix7]

Ok new update.

Let me know what you see/think

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Edited to embed the video.  -knagl

[knagl]

The videos are helpful, thanks.

What you called the "counter" on the back of the coin comparator is actually the diverter rake, and it is controlled by the small solenoid on the back.  Its job when it is functioning properly is to divert all coins back to the player unless the solenoid is engaged, which only happens when the machine is ready to accept a coin.

The fact that you're missing a molex plug into the comparator now makes a little more sense, since someone has bent the rake on your comparator way out of alignment.  As such, your coin comparator is really doing nothing, as it has lost its ability to reject coins.  Normally, if the machine is not ready to accept a coin (not powered on, tilt code, maximum coin-in reached, or in the middle of a game), the spring on the rake holds it so that it diverts all coins back to the player.  Only when the machine is ready to accept a coin would that solenoid be activated to pull the rake back and allow coins through.  In your case, the rake has been defeated by bending it out of alignment, and as such it will accept any coin at any time.  Your comparator isn't powered at all, in fact, since it has no connection to the machine.  It's simply a placeholder that funnels coins dropped in the coin entry down through the optics.  We can work on that at some point, but since your machine was accepting coins while your comparator was in that condition, let's move past that for now -- we can always come back later and get it functioning 100%.

You can remove the optics assembly by removing the screws on the back panel.  From there, you'll actually be able to open it up to access the individual optics.  That said, I'd really first try the self test input test for the optics that I described back in Reply #11, as that will tell you what the machine is seeing working (or not working) with your coin-in optics.




Not related to your machine problem, but if you turn your phone sideways before you start recording, your video will fill the entire YouTube screen, rather than being a narrow column of video (and the Internet will thank you).   

[Classix7]

Haha thanks Kevin!  I use a ipad2 mini for the recording. I'll slam it all back together after cleaning and take a vid on what's happening. I figure with a vid there is no second guessing and you guys know what's going on !! 

[knagl]

Good deal.  Turn the iPad sideways (before you start recording, or it will just record a vertical video on its side!) then. 

I forgot to mention in my earlier reply, your bill validator sounds okay -- it's making the correct sounds, and those two little red lights you can see in there are normal when the thing has power.  Once you get past the 21 issue, I imagine your validator will be working (and if not, it will be easy enough to enable it if needed).

[Classix7]

I never asked but I
Should. Do you guys sell parts?  I'd hate to give money to eBay guys instead of supporting the boys here. If I have to replace the optics id rather buy from here then overseas.

[knagl]

I never asked but I Should. Do you guys sell parts?  I'd hate to give money to eBay guys instead of supporting the boys here. If I have to replace the optics id rather buy from here then overseas.

New Life Games itself doesn't typically sell parts (maybe some in person at the shop, but not online), but there are a number of supporting vendors for the site that do.  Those vendors who have the "supporting vendor" badge have earned that through their association with this site and their reputation for being upstanding vendors. 

You can see the banners for the supporting vendors on the front page of the NLG site (here).  You can try contacting them directly for parts, or even easier, have them come to you by posting a WTB ("Want To Buy") ad here on the site.  If/when you are a contributing member, you will have posting privileges in the NLG Classifieds section of the board.  However, even without being a contributing member, you may post a WTB ad in the NLG user's request board, and a vendor or another member who has the part(s) you need should reply.

[Classix7]

Awesome. Thanks. You guys have helped a lot. And trust me. I WILL be making a donation to the boards !! 

Here is the next vid update. Feel my pain

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Embedded the video.  (Hooray, not vertical!) -knagl

[Shaggy]

Wow! That thing is wicked. It's not even my machine but watching the video (by the way, they're excellent) gave ME a headache. I think the fact the b/v isn't working and no 21 error then b/v cycles and error comes back is coincidence. I think! My concern is opening and shutting the door, then the error comes back when a coin is put in. Let's put the b/v aside for a moment. Is there any chance some wires are rubbing when the door is shut? Catching on the duckbill of the validator or something like that. Maybe check where the open Molex connector is and look for stripped insulation that may be grounding against the door. I'm trying to think of everything you did before the error reappeared. It's possible that the wiring there is why it was disconnected to begin with.     It's a puzzle for sure. My thoughts are that the wires are hanging down and that's pretty close to that duckbill. They may be hitting and getting pinched. The reason I say that is yesterday when I took the pics of my machine I bumped the light socket on the max credits button and it fell out. I didn't see it but when I tried to close the  door the socket was hitting and the door wouldn't close easily.   Just an early morning thought.

Dave

[Jim]

you have several things going on:  first and foremost you have to get the 21 fixed.  since the cc-16 is out of the loop (so to speak) and the unit worked as it was tells me someone modified the optics so it would work in that condition. typically for it to work like that transistor Q-2 or Q-4 had to be removed. a close up picture of the top optic board would confirm that. I have seen a bad optic or a piece of lint in the optic hole cause that problem.  since you are comfortable taking thing apart, remove the 10 pin plug,  take the two screws out, this will allow the top optic board to be removed from the stack, this will also allow the black encoder to be removed as well, now you can see if there are any obstructions blocking the holes. you can also examine the three infrared  emitters for possible dirt or ?.  if nothing obvious is wrong  then reassemble. now try and do the input test 10_1, 11_1 and 12_1.  11_1 is the only test that the tiny white test button will react to. if 11 and 12 work, and 10 does not, you either have a bad infrared emitter or the wire connector pin has lost its shape and is not making a good connection. you can verify this by wiggling the 10 pin connector while you have all the optics blocked, if the 10 toggles from 0 to 1 as you do this then you have to reshape the pin connector. you can hold the connector and shine a flashlight from the opposite end of the connector and you will see if there is a gap in any of the pins. the second item is the bet 2 button, it should only be on when you have credits on the machine, test 21 in the input test will test the switch to see if the cpu is picking up the signal, you can test all the buttons  ( you need to get a copy of the flip cards, it will show all these items.  lastly, the bill unit is not making the right sounds, it should make TWO distinct grinding noises, the first grind is the rear white wheel that sticks through the bill shelf and interacts with the cash can ,this is the first noise, then a quieter less working noise, this interacts with the 145 head and the transport.  yours is only making one sound.  you can test the bulbs on the bezel using output test 27.

Hope this helps

Jim     

[knagl]

Hold the phone, I saw something in your latest video that is a big clue as to why you're getting the 21 error.

Right near the end of the video when you closed the door one-handed, the machine never saw the door as closed.  You then inserted a coin, which should have been rejected, but since the rake on your comparator is bent back, it was accepted, and the machine threw a 21 error because a coin made it through the coin-in optics even though it should have been rejected.

How can I tell that the machine didn't see the door as closed?  When you closed the door with two hands at 1:38 in the video (not seen because you set the iPad down), the "Coins Played" display changed from a zero to blank, then when the display returned it showed a 1 -- the number of coins played in the last paid game.

When you closed the door at the end of the video at 5:08, the Coins Played display never went blank, nor did it ever change from 0.  0 is not a valid number of coins played in a paid game.  Despite the "Insert Coin" lamp being lit (we can troubleshoot that later), the machine was not ready to accept a coin as it did not see the door as closed.  As such, when a coin still snuck past the optics, it threw a coin-in tilt.  Edited to add: since your machine is a 2-coin game, it should only accept a maximum of 2 coins at a time between spins.  If you try to insert a third coin after the first two are accepted, I would also expect a 21 error for the same reasons -- the machine isn't expecting it to be possible for another coin to go past the optics.</edit>


When you close the door, ensure that the latch is firmly all the way down.  If it is and the machine is still not reacting, it's possible that your door optics are out of alignment.  We can go down that road if you think they are, but let's start with ensuring that you are firmly closing and pushing the latch all the way down when you latch the door shut, like you did at 1:38 in your video.


As far as your validator, I suspect that it is not enabled, but there could be other issues, too, as Jim stated above.  If you're able to get the 21 to go away by fully closing and latching the door, you can give the SET chip procedure a try to ensure that the validator is enabled.  If you want to record you doing that, maybe you can find a small table or barstool or something to set the iPad on so we can see what you're doing as you go through the SET chip steps.  As always, be sure to power the machine off when removing or inserting the MPU board.


Oh, and for your Max Bet ("Play 2 Credits") button, I suspect you have the wrong wires attached to the wrong terminals.  That light should only be on if the button is available to be pressed.  Since it's always on, I suspect something is shorted.  I'll go look at one of my S+ machines and post again here (or edit this post) shortly.  There are four terminals on the button assembly.  Two of them are for the light bulb in the button, two of them are for the cherry (micro) switch that is pressed when the button is pressed by the player.  If you have wires crossed, you'd get some weird results, possibly like the light being on all the time.


You're getting closer!  We'll get this thing fixed yet.

[knagl]

Here's a video I threw together for the wiring for your Max Bet ("Play 2 Credits") button.  The wire I was unsure of the color of is indeed yellow.  It's a lot more yellow in the video than it is in person!   

Of note, you do not need to pop out the switch/light assembly from the button -- I just did it to make it easier to show everything.

I'll get a better camera guy next time.   

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[Classix7]

Awesome thanks Kevin!  I'll be working on the machine tomorow night. I'll record the goings on. I was also thinking to redo the SET chip. I had just done it but I think something got forgotten. I'll check the door alignment as well as it can be tricky. I always make sure the bolt is all
The way down.

Am I better off to get a new harness CC and optics if I continue to have this issue ? 

Cheers

[knagl]

Am I better off to get a new harness CC and optics if I continue to have this issue ? 

If you want the coin comparator to actually do what it's supposed to do, you'll need the wire harness at a minimum, and then we can see if your comparator is working (and just needs the rake bent back).  After your latest video, the indications I'm seeing are that your coin-in optics are doing exactly what they're supposed to do: detecting coins as they go past, and causing a 21 error if a coin is accepted when it shouldn't be (like if it thinks the door is open).

To reiterate, when you close the door, make sure that the latch is all the way down, and watch the "Coins Played" LED display.  It should go blank for a few seconds after you have fully latched the door.  If it doesn't, your machine isn't detecting the door as closed.

Another thing that can cause the machine to not see the door as closed is if the door to your bill stacker ("cash can") is open.  There's a microswitch on that door, and if the door is detected as open, no amount of closing the main door will tell the machine that the door is closed.  Some people like to short the wires for the stacker door together so it never will trigger a door open situation.  I prefer to slightly bend the metal of the door so that when the stacker door is closed, it stays closed and can't jiggle open on its own.

[Jim]

If you really want to know for sure what the optics are doing and when they are beginning to operate use the test 13_1 in the input test section. It will show exactly when the optics are aligned ( 1 starts to toggle back and forth to a 0)  this will tell the story.

as with anything in that machine, if you use the built in diagnostic tests that were meant to be used for troubleshooting you can determine a lot of things pretty quick and know with out a doubt what is going on.


Jim