Eratic payout

[fgurnee]

Hi.  Just getting started.  My machine is having payout problems but I don't know all the terms, parts, pieces, functions, etc.  I also don't know exactly what machine I have but I have been told it may be 111x.  Hopefully pics attached.

My payout unit is electrically stepped.  I have gotten it to actually spit out coins so all of that part works.  It seems that the wiper thing is not getting reset.  Sometime the cog wheel is engaged after a cycle and sometime it is free turning.  If free and I press on the reset pawl or step up arm something clicks into the cog wheel.  I can advance that by pushing on the stepper plunger.  So things function at some level.


i've read about the zero switch.  On my diagram there is an "open at zero carriage switch" but not clear exactly where that is and what to check for.  I'm not sure where that spiral cam wiper thing is supposed to be after a payout but I think it's not where it's supposed to be.


I cycle the machine by blocking the fan, set wheels, release fan.  I think I have found the "variator bar above the fan" from Pop Quiz #1 and that seems to start the clock again and click some relays.  But if the payout didn't occur the first time, this doesn't cause a payout.


Sorry for the non-exact information but appreciate any advice.
Frank

[fgurnee]

Ok.  Now I think I understand what the spiral cam wiper reset position is.  It's not getting there.  The cam is free and not all the way re-wound.  I spin it back to the end and press the step up arm and click locks it in this reset position.  There is a switch that gets hit here.  If I put it in the machine, it will payout. 


Not at all clear what causes that cam to turn back into the reset start position.  If I start in reset position and do what the manual say: click plunger about 10 times the rotate manually 360 degrees, then manually hit the reset plunger.  It implies the cam should spin on its own back to reset. Mine seems slightly springy at some point but doesn't really spin.  If I spin it back all the way by hand and hit the stop, it doesn't latch there unless I press on the pawl.


Aha!  I just found torsion spring in diagram.  That sounds like the culprit.

[fgurnee]

OMG!!!!  When I first got this and removed the payout unit there was a missing e-clip on the front most shaft.  In its place someone had wrapped a tie wrap like from a bread wrapper into the grove of the shaft.  I removed that and got an e-clip.  HOWEVER  I didn't realize how the thing worked and just popped into the spiral cam conveniently.  Now I realize that that has to be wound up on the torsion spring so it springs back into reset!!!.


I am going to work on that and will report.  I have great expectations, as Dickens would say


And.....that solved my problem. Duh.


But I would still like to know what type of machine this is if someone looks at the pics.  Thanks for listening.

[shortrackskater]

Great to hear you got it going! Sometimes It just takes a little looking/figuring on these EM's. I have trouble with them constantly. I may be coming to you for help!
The EM "crowd" should be chiming in soon I hope.

[slcjeeper]

A note about when the payout unit resets: The payout unit will only reset on the next winning play and rotate until the winning number of coins register as they pass under the roller on top of the hopper. Ex: the arm is pulled and reels stop on a win of 10 coins. The payout unit resets and begins to rotate 1 click for each coin paid out and stops on the 10th coin. The payout unit will stay in this position until a future game results in a win. It's at that point that the payout unit will once again reset and payout.
As for the payout unit itself,  clean, clean, clean! There are a lot of moving / sliding parts and I clean and lube them all before adjusting the cam spring.  The cam spring usually ends up being wound 2 times,  maybe a notch more. The payout unit needs to move 200 steps without binding but If it's too tight the payout unit will not pay correctly. There are a series of steps to follow when making payout unit adjustments. Do them in order and everything should line up fine. Good luck!

[fgurnee]

Thanks for the information.  I believe I did wind it 2 turns.  Now that it seems to function and I understand a bit about it, I will go through the cleaning process.

[DavidLee]

In regards to the machine type.
Should be a Bally ID plate bottom right near the front of the machine.
If the plate has been removed, check inside the machine.
It’s possible that someone marked the machine number on one or more of the components.

[slcjeeper]

To add to DavidLee, also check around inside the machine top and bottom for paper tags tied to the wiring harness.  These will often have the game Model stamped on them.

[fgurnee]

Thanks for the info.  I think the plate was removed when it was worked on in California probably around the 25 year timeframe. I see a sticker removed inside the machine, no tags on wires.  I found pics of two different 1090 machines that look almost identical to mine except belly glass.  My coin tray goes all the way across the bottom; the 2 others are smaller trays.  Also, mine does not have a "service" button on the left side of the fluted piece below the coin slot.  That seems strange.  Not as important now that I have it working but would be nice to sleuth the model out.


Frank

[DavidLee]

Look on the top of the hopper cover plate.
Appears to be a number with a dash A.
Also on the reel wiper boards, sometimes there marked.


It’s possible that the machine was reworked / updating at one time or pieced together.
Later machines have a "change service button". 1090 - 1088 3 coin buy a pay came with wide body and reels.
Also they have the remote electronic payout step up unit. The hopper in your machine is of the older type. with the mechanical payout unit mounted on the side.
This is based on my limited experience.

[OldReno]

The pay board resets after a pay on the very next handle pull. Otherwise your winner paid light would stay on. To verify this set up a pay. After it pays, push back on the variation timing bar (above the fan) and you will hear it reset & pay again. This is the easy way to check for short pays.