Bally 873 - Lighting and other electrical issues

[DavidLee]

Possible break, bad connection in the Solid Yellow or Blue wire for the lights.
Check the schematic attached.

Locate a good Solid Yellow in the door, jump it to a yellow on insert coin socket for testing.

[bobmueller]

Awesome. The manual I have doesn't have this schematic. Have a great Easter.

[OldReno]

Please be careful. Your schema shows a 10-2 wire going to bell. That means it is the 3rd use of a solid red wire. Solid red wires are also associated with the 120v circuits. Do not assume all solid red wires are 6v. You know what happens when we assume shit.

[bobmueller]

Ok... there was some light but some odd things going on. If I jumper the hopper full switch (tilt switch?) to the common on the 1st coin light in the door I get top panel lighting. Lights work as expected up top but I don't have the insert coin light or the other one in the door. Also when jumper to the 1st coin light only the first and fifth coin lights light up. I'm not able to find either a blue or yellow wire that will illuminate the insert coin light.


Where should I be looking for a break? Everywhere I test I get connectivity.



[size=78%]https://youtu.be/FLfSo6VpaQ8[/size]

[DavidLee]

Okay looks like the machine is running great and just a few bulbs not working.
Did you say the machine was sitting for a long time? If so the bulbs and sockets may have an oxidation layer on them.

Make yourself a test bulb (see attachment) by adding a layer of solder to the side.
Clean the bottom electrode on Levi material or light fine sandpaper. 
Try it in few of the the non working sockets and the insert coin - accepted.
This will help eliminate the sockets and bulbs 99%.
 Also a slight squeeze on a socket will add pressure to the side of the lamp.
 
Be careful removing the front belly glass, If its typical, two screws inside the door hold it to the machine.
The one on the left is visible, the one on the right is behind the wiring and a little hard to get to. 70% of the time the right one is missing.
Screws out the frame will move out on the top, this is where to be careful. (On occasions the frame will be stuck in due to sweet drinks spilt on the machine.) 
Slide the chrome frame up this holds the glass in place. Its possible the glass will come with the frame.
Or it may stay resting in the lower part of the frame.
Make sure to have control of the glass at this point as it will just be resting in place by gravity.

This would be a good time to clean the fluorescent lamps and the glass inside.
***Big caution on glass cleaning*** Be careful as the screen printing ink has become unstable over time and might come off very easy.
Even soap and water could damage the glass, so test a small corner and proceed with caution.
I always place glass face down in a safe place to avoid scratching light holes into it.   

 

[bobmueller]

David actually the 1-5 coin bulbs all work. If you jumper the common to any of them they light up. However they do not work when the jumper is on #1 in the door. Top will work if jumper is connected to any of the coin bulbs.


I'll verify all the bulbs again.  I'm thinking this maybe more then one wire.



Ya this sat. I think based on evidence that it fell and hit the floor and didn't work correct anymore then sat out in a garage or on the floor. Might have even flooded. There's some rust.

[DavidLee]

So you needed to supply a common for the lights to work up top.
The bottom also works except for 234 coin and this is with the jumper connected.
So it appears that there is a lack of a common connection for the bulbs.
And a lack of signal or bad connection for down below.
Good work narrowing that down


In the top unit you tested the yellow and blue at the beau socket and they were good 6.? volts.


The step unit will advance with every coin correct? Indicating the 54 volt orange is working. As it receives a signal from the coin in switch common yellow / red wire I believe.


The solid common yellow for that unit may be disrupted within the unit.
Have you cleaned the step up unit contacts, wipers and receiver rivets? One of the units function is to advances and resets the odds light display. No yellow no lights. Check out the video, I have two pertaining to the odds unit.


 I use contact cleaner and q-tips on the wiper and cardboard on the contact points.
When I say cardboard, I'll rip a layer off the corrugated center layer, cut it about 3/4 x 4 inches and fold it the long way to make a cleaning tool. Has a little tooth to clean and absorb dirt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io10MEzmnYE&sns=em

[bobmueller]

Hey much success just now. AFTER undoing miles of electrical tap to trace out the yellow wire I noticed where something had been spliced inline (they cut our a bunch of things there are splices like this all over) with a set of yellow and orange wires and this was snipped. They tied the orange wires back together but not the yellows. After I tied it back together I got top lights.


I cleaned the switches on the reels again and I'm getting intermittent Insert Coin and Coin Accepted lights. If you tap the door sometimes they come on... might be in the molex as this was cleaned again too.


If the line unit is lighting up properly and the coin lights in the door are still not working right (except for 1 and 5)... still have dirty contacts on the line unit. Also the winner paid doesn't come on. At least on coin two there's no voltage at the socket. I'll take another shot at cleaning it. I'm using some 600 grit sanding film. It's wet sanding, plastic backed sandpaper that's thin enough to slide between the contacts and high enough grit that nothing gets damaged with a pass or two. Also, I made up a cardboard and stick on sandpaper tools that get "down in there".


About the belly glass... I've got some pinholes in the black but nice color otherwise. I'm not opening that until I have an issue. Right now it's working fine. Not sure how to deal with that at this stage.

[DavidLee]

Great progress on tracing down the yellow wire. Now that the top line unit lights works.
Set up the second line / coin on the top unit then follow the wire down to the reel glass second line light. See where it breaks continuity.
Do the same for the 3rd and 4th. 

[bobmueller]

David - seems like the remaining issues are either relay contacts or plug issues on the reels.


Occasionally - especially if the hopper runs the insert coin light and accepted light will work. At one point I had everything working but coin 2 on the door.  I played about 10 - 15 minutes and 1, 4 and 5 on the door are stable. 3 is iffy. The bulb was missing and swapping a good one in I've yet to see it work. I've got 55&63's coming. I'll get it. I'd never have got here without your help. Thanks.


What do you recommend for the door issue. Lock won't turn far enough to release the key. The door also wont close all the way unless you pull it closed. The sliding tabs on the door side look like they have about an 1/8 too much travel. Someone ground one side of the washer that stops the lock from rotating. I don't know if just cutting the catches is a good idea or if there's way to adjust the door.

[bobmueller]

Update... reseating the line unit got the coin lights on the door all working. Now just missing the insert,accepted and pay out lights. All on the reels from the info you've given me.


Can't tell if it's the plug or the contacts. But darn close.

[OldReno]

Bend the door lock tabs out with shaft of screwdriver.
Push in on door by coin in slot to free up lock.
Sounds like you have bad 30 wire to the door  re- your intermitent lites.

[OldReno]

All 3 of those door lites go through payout relay switch 45 to 30 wire. Make sure that sw has enough tension in N.C. Setting

[bobmueller]

I created an issue. The coin accepted light is on constant.


From these pics can you see what I've got bent the wrong way?



Here's a youtube vid of the current state of affairs...


https://youtu.be/LniCIrTaTco

[DavidLee]

Make a little paper tent and hang it over the contacts in question. See second photo.
This will help identify what they control.
The contacts on the coin relay switch are temperamental. Check for continuity on the solder joint when possible.
Putting the meter probes on the blades can cause a false positive reading.   

[bobmueller]

UPS brought the bulbs. I replaced all my 63's and 55's. Fuse pops after a few minutes. I replaced with a 7.5 and it's fine. New bulbs just draw more? Old bulbs? Something to stress over long term?


Also looking for a pic of the "Reset pawl" switch. From my docs it appears that's located on the hopper. (?) My winner paid decided that it should stay on. At this point you've got the most complet tut on the lighting system on the internet... We may as well finish it;).


Is it possible to buy these switches/relay contacts anywhere? Whatever the white residue is wasn't good for these parts. And I'd like mine to look more like yours. Hard to believe the rarity parts given the zillions of these that were produced.

[DavidLee]

The small bulbs I keep in stock are 44, 47 and 63s. Not sure if the bulbs would cause the fuse to pop.
***Double check this,*** but most of the fuses I've removed are 8 amp.

Re: pawl switch is associated with the payout step up unit. It pushes the winner paid contacts open when it resets after a payout.
When the handle in pulled.

Contact adjustment and or lubrication of the mechanism may help. Slight chance the reset coil / plunger are weak or dirty inside.

Switch and coil in located on the opposite side of the spiral cam. You can manually step up and reset the unit to check out the contacts.

The picture I posted is not typical of older machines. This machine is from 1979 and had a short, which in turn caused it to just sit.
Its like brand new inside and out.
As you work on the machine clean that area, eventually the whole machine will be clean. lol
Try vinegar or some type of light acid on a small area, see if that removes any of the deposits.     

[bobmueller]

I was just about ask for a little more help and thought I'd take a few shots of the switch in the hopper... then I tweaked it one last time and tested. I can't believe this is all working. Lots of dopamine flowing right now! The hopper light is the only thing left... I'll get that...how hard could that be right?

[/size][size=78%]https://youtu.be/LniCIrTaTco[/size]


Not sure if it's stable or not but I know where/what the issues are likely to be.


I can't thank you enough for all the help and the walk throughs.


Looking at my machine build 7/5/78 and the documentation that I have it's supposed to have #55's in the coin lights for the door. All other door lights are #63's. Top unit is all #44's. Some of these looked original and were stamped so I'm pretty sure that info was accurate. Same documentation lists 5 amp fuses for the first two and an 8 amp in the last position. I've heard mention of 5,7.5,8's and even 10 amp fuses in here so I'm not really that concerned at this point. It was actually was running through most testing using a 2 amp fuse out of some cigarette plug for a gps... we do dumb stuff in a pinch.

[DavidLee]

Great, glad the machine is 99%.


In summary the cut yellow wire and cleaning did the trick.


What is the last remaining problem? You mentioned something about the hopper.

[bobmueller]

Last lighting problem was the courtesy light... I said hopper instead of tray.

Lots more cleaning then just cleaning and a snipped yellow. Let's not forget about moving pins, epoxy and where not to use it, wire tracing, relay testing, cleaning up splices, adjusting the coin slot and pay switch....


For the future:
Door - the lock mech is worn out and drops the latches too far down.


Pin holes throug the belly glass graphics.


Can we verify the correct fuse sizes?


I blew a fuse 7.5 amp on a 3 bar payout but after a couple of them.  Is it a 10 amp?


I've never seen the outside ring of lights go on.

Next round:
I think it's over paying. I'm headed to the bank to get a stock of quarters so I can stop opening and closing this door. I'll chart out the pays but I think it pays an extra 2 on straight lines and 5 extra on a diag.  And maybe it's just me but it's like it hits payouts way too often. Not like a false payout but too rich.


Was getting some weird hopper behavior because the blue side of the coin accepted light was touching the door frame so closing the door shot like 3 or 4 coins and more as soon as you pulled the handle 15-20 more on each pull. Something else shorted.

The rivets are all pretty dull and you can see a black line through each. I hit them with spray but didn't know how to move the wiper. I found these tech notes... But I need to get my head around how the payout works.


http://www.myslotnotes.com/Slotfiles/bally%20troubleshooting%20guide.pdf


I've never manually advanced the reels...didn't want to break anything. How do you do it?




And I just found the attachment box... How did I not see that...grrr. I went and added all the pics I posted wrong for posterity.