Bally 873 zc 5 -Line Coin credit issues

[Eddie]

Hi guys! I restore and repair Pinball and Pachinko machines. I do own and work on my IGT Haywire machine as well as Japanese Pachislo slot machines.

Here is my question. I have a guy that is bringing me his Bally 873zc machine complaining that it takes about 12-20 coins to register 5 credits.

I have never seen one of these machines but from this site I have discovered that it is an EM.

What should I be looking for to address this problem? Would it be a dirty coin mech or a certain relay switch stack  or credit reel that I should be looking for and if so where would it be located? Thanks in advance.

[wolftalk]

hi eddie,

assuming it's really an 873-ZC and not just the model/serial number plate, the paperwork is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

the schem is the w-1046-xxx file.

if you're familiar with bally EM pinballs, you won't have any trouble tracking down the issue ... probably the line unit not stepping up reliably due to electrical issue, but it could be mechanical.

the line unit step-up is a little indirect:

- first coin resets stuff and trips coin relay and handle release relay
- second+ coins cause the line unit step-up relay to power when the coin switch goes down, and a hold switch on the relay keeps the relay powered until a line unit EOS switch opens.  The EOS is really a step-up arm switch.
- when the coin switch goes back up, circuit completes thru a different line unit relay switch to power the line unit step-up solenoid coil
- the EOS switch opens, unpowers the line unit relay and that in turn unpowers the line unit step-up solenoid to step the unit.

to make complete sense of the schem, you need to know:

- the coin relay and handle release relay are electrically tripped and mechanically reset

- the payout counter is mechanically stepped by a coin exiting the hopper, and electrically reset

- payout happens when a circuit completes thru the reel wiper boards and payout counter to power the payout relay.  When the payout counter steps off the powered trace(s), payout ends.

- the #1 snap switch ... if you have one ... is a microswitch activated by the reel 1 wiper arm.  It allows a coin to register until reel 1 latches during the spin, and is mainly intended to register a coin stuck in the coin mech that went thru due to the shockwave of the reel spin kickoff.

- the dashpot is the air cylinder damper on the right side of the reel mech.  The dashpot switch is operated by the u-shaped bar that goes into the cylinder.

[Eddie]

Wow thanks for the info. Lots to take in as the machine is being brought tomorrow. Ill report on how it goes.

[DavidLee]

It appears that the line unit is struggling to operate.
Indicating that it does work and the circuit is probably okay.

Best to check the mechanical aspect of the unit.
Do this by manually operating the unit up then releasing it back.
 Providing it steps up, observe the reverse movement back.
It should spring back in one rapid motion.
Cleaning the related contacts making sure they are functioning properly and there’s continuity.

Test the machine, as you know making adjustments on more than one unit at a time
can result in a more confusing situation.

[Eddie]

Well it turns out that the coin acceptor was out of adjustment not allowing coins fall through and toggle the coin in switch!

There was also a switch blade, on the right side of the machine activated by the Spin arm, not making contact N/C was open. I have no idea what it does.

Lots of rust in the machine and relay brackets.

I cleaned most switch contacts and removed some of the rust.

In the bottom of the cabinet he had a bunch of spare mechs including a Bell assembly.

I cant seem to find where it would mount and which wires to connect to it. Any ideas?

So the machine is working just fine now.

One more thing. the power cord plug is missing the ground prong but it looks like that is the way it was.
Should there be a ground prong that I need to install?

 Thanks all

[wolftalk]

there's exploded parts diagrams for the 873 in the bally 400 manual (https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/)

the bell is mounted inside the cabinet above the handle release relay with the round bell part towards the front of the game and the coil towards the rear.

connect to blue wire 20 and red wire 10-1, which should be in the wiring harness nearby.  The blue wire is the 6V fused power, so the bell should be 6V.

there may also be a terminal strip in the top compartment with 20 and 10-1 on it for connection to a light tower.

if/when the bell rings is one of the variations between models of an 873.  Different customers liked more or less noise.  On the 873-ZC, it rings for bars and all jackpots per the schematic.

a grounded power cord is ideal.  The ground wire goes to the metal chassis - and therefore the entire front door via the hinges.  One place the ground is commonly attached is under one of the screws holding down the hopper plug.  Crimp on a ring terminal and bung it under a screw.

david and some of the other folks have seen more machines than me, so they may have other suggestions on where bally attached the ground wire.

[Eddie]

Great info. I went ahead and installed a grounded plug and the bell however the bell is not ringing at all. I will check the schematic that you linked and look for a switch or switches that activate it.

[wolftalk]

did ya test the bell to make sure it works?  Jumper it to any lit lamp (well, not the flourescents :-)) and see if it annoys the pooch.

[Eddie]

I did as you said and it only annoyed me LOL as it didnt ring.  I get 3 ohms across the bell coil so it should be good. However I dont get any voltage to the bell  through its power wire but of course maybe because it is not activated?

I also dont get the upper backglass surround lights. (Not the coin in lights they work fine) I am referring to the lights that go around them.  I think that those lights and the bell both share a Blue wire I assume its the ground wire?

With 1 test lead on ground the other on each bell connecting wire I get 0.071v Again this I think is because the Bell circuit is not activated.

There is a brown with yellow dashes and a White wire that are cut on the side of the score reel assembly are they related?

[wolftalk]

if you stick your meter probes on the blue wire (20) and the red wire (10-1) you should get a little over 6VAC ... bus as you say, only when the circuit is active.

the easy test is one side of the bell on wire 20, the other side on yellow wire (30) on the coin switch.

the peripheral lights on the upper glass only flash when you have a 777 win and the 6V flasher relay is powering/unpowering.

the circuit for the flasher relay is ... odd.  The actually use a 455 flasher lamp, which is a light bulb with a filament that bends when it gets hot and disconnects itself.  The it cools and reconnects so you get a blinking light.

if the 455 lamp is bad, the flasher relay won't do anything.

are ya sure the cut wires aren't faded red/white and red/yellow ... in which case the flasher relay is missing?

'course, ya got me confused with "score reel assembly" ... you mean the line unit with the wipers and rivet contact plate, or is there actually a pinball style score reel in there?  If there's a score reel, your game has been assembled with parts from different machines.  Got pictures?  If the NLG size limit is annoying, email highest resolution pictures to slotpics@cdyn.com and take pics from back far enough to see surrounding units and the wires. 

tmi for folks unfamiliar with the schematic and bally slot/pinball wiring

the blue wire (20) is connected to the 6VAC fuse, so it's the 6V "hot". 
orange wire (70) is connected to the 50VAC fuse, so it's the 50V hot.

the yellow wire (30) is the common neutral for both the above, and 30 is one of the wires on the coin switch, so it's easy to get to.

for any coil that has one lug connected to wire 70, you can use a jumper to touch the other lug to wire 30 and the coil should fire.

for any lamp or bell with one side connected to wire 20 (the bare wire running around the top insert board is normally 20 also), you can connect the other side to wire 30 and it should do its thing.

if you connect 30 directly to 70 or 20, bye-bye fuse :-)

since wires 20, 30 and 70 daisy chain all over the place, occasionally a wire segment may break off and everything "downstream" won't work.  The worst case is a break in wire 30 and it can then be possible to have a device with 6V on one side and 50V on the other via the disconnected segment of wire 30.  The coils aren't bothered too much, but lamp filaments tend to disappear.

a brown wire with yellow tracer would be 63 or 63-x (they reused the same color wire in different circuits, so the add the -1, -2, etc.) on the schematic to distinguish them.  In the game, they all look the same.  Moral is - don't assume that two wires of the same color are actually the same wire.  A solid white wire would be 50 or 50-x

[Eddie]

I wont be able to test again until tomorrow.

I tested by jumping the Blue wires on the bell to a  Yellow lamp socket on the coindoor.

I tested the blue wire which is daisy changed to the peripheral light string and it was the ground of that string.

I didnt want to jump the power wire to that side.

I am familiar with the 455 bulbs I have a ton. Older Pinball machines use them as a timer.

I will check the bulb to see if its still good.

The wires I mentioned that were cut were on the main reel assembly my error calling it the Score reel assembly.

I will take pics.

Does it matter which side the Blue and the red wires are connected to the Bell? I wouldnt think so since its just a coil without a diode.

[wolftalk]

in DC terms,  yellow wire 30 is ground.  Blue wire 20 is power. 

in AC yellow is neutral and blue is hot.

like in the pinballs, hot is tied directly to the loads and the rest of the circuits are connecting the other side of the loads to neutral.  That makes short circuits and oopses when poking around a lot less likely to blow a fuse or damage stuff.

also like the pinballs, the 20 is strung between many lamps with bare wire(s) stapled to the wood.  Somewhere on each bare wire segment a blue wire attaches.

you can verify wire 20 is hot using your meter.  Other probe on wire 30 and you should always see 6VAC.

[Eddie]

I have 6v at the yellow wires at the coin in switch.

No voltage at the bell or the peripheral lamps.

I tested the bell by jumping to the yellow coin in switch wires and nothing.

I removed the bell to test outside of the machine. I used a 6vac wall wart and nothing. I then noticed that the Bell seemed out of working adjustment. The Hammer arm was bent wrong and the Main bracket was twisted.

I took care of those issues and tested again and nothing. I then tried a 12v ac wallwart as it had more amps then the 6v wall wart and the Bell worked!

I reinstalled the Bell and replaced the 455 bulb just in case it was the issue. Still No bell or Lights.

Here are pics of the wires that are cut and also a pic of the coin door in case you might see something I have missed with the Bell circuit. Note that the Door closed switch is missing.

[wolftalk]

hole in top of the cabinet may also be for a top sign light.

to test the bell outside the game, use a couple jumpers and connect it to blue wire 20 and yellow wire 30 - the blue arrows shown in below.

if the bell is installed with wires 20 and 10-2 (red) attached, put a jumper on 10-2 and touch other end to 30 on coin switch.

you're thinking of the power backwards.  You don't have 6V at the coin switch ... the coin switch yellow wire 30 is neutral/ground.  You have 6V wherever the other meter probe was.

the bell is made for different voltages, so take a look at the thing and see if 6VAC is stamped on it someplace.  You could just have the wrong bell (not likely tho).  If it doesn't work when connected to wires 20 and 30 tho, it has a problem assuming you have 6VAC measured on the 20 and 30 attach points.

the 14 perimeter lamps are connected in parallel to wire 20 and wire blue/yellow wire 23-3.  If you jumper 23-3 to wire 30, those lights should all turn on.  Wire 30 is available on the line unit, or with the top insert out you can jumper wire 20 on the insert to wire 20 on the door lamp and wire 23-3 to wire 30 on the coin switch.

with the insert out, you can also jumper wire 20 per above and jumper wire 30 on the coin switch to wire 30 on the line unit, then push down the flasher relay armature onto the coil top and the 14 lamps should light.

point is that wire 20 and wire 30 daisy chain all over the place, so if you attach to them anywhere you're connected to the entire chain - assuming there's no breaks in it. 

if the bell works when jumpered, for it to work in the game it should ring during payout for a jackpot or bar win, and ring when the game is in jackpot lockup for a 5th coin win which the game cannot pay in coins.  On the -ZC, it looks like it doesn't pay any coins ... just sits there ringing the bell.  Some games will pay 200 coins and the attendant pays the rest in cash.
 

your wires are cut near the reel mech C switch.  I assume the white wire is actually white/yellow, and those wires are for the "total in" and "total out" meters that can be installed in front of the reels. 

commonly when casinos sold off the games, they removed the meters.  Apparently someone wanted a lot of wire still attached when they took out yours.

you can see what it looked like on the reel mech left pic at https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/873-4ZZ/pics/ ... which is also too big a pic to post here :-)

if you are bored, please email highest resolution pics of your machine to slotpics@cdyn.com or stick on a cloud drive so I can fetch them and put them on the above site.  Ideally:
- entire game front
- all 6 sides of the reel mech
- payout counter including wiring
- entire top insert board - lamp side as well as a few angles of the stuff behind the panel
- handle release relay area when the reels are removed

the goal is to have high res pictures that when zoomed in wire colors are visible so when people have issues, they can see what things look like on other games.

[Eddie]

Bored LOL no time!

I didnt get to try your suggestions as I have spent the last 10 hrs restoring a Pachinko machine for another client and have at least another 20hrs to go!

I will take pics as you asked and send them to your email. Dont know anything about the cloud. Have to use a camera as I still have a flip phone.

I did take many pics and posted them 2 days ago to my FB page "Pintech" as I always take pics and post for the clients. However I do not think they will meet your requested requirements.

Baring a broken wire or possible short I would think that getting the Bell and peripheral lights working shouldnt be too complicated. I feel like an amature .

I really have to thank you so much for the great support. You arre not only helping me but you may be helping others with this issue.

[DavidLee]

If the bell is associated with the jackpot relay.
Possibly the switches need a cleaning due to inactivity.

Cut wires most likely associated with the coin counters.

Typical wiring black, white and green.

[Eddie]

While taking pics for wolftalk I saw that the Lamp insert relay didnt appear to be right as the center blade was stuck touching the bottom blade .

I then tried to actuate it by hand to see if it would make contact with the upper blade but the relay seemed to be sticking.

From what I could see the center blade would never make contact with the upper blade.

I adjusted the upper blade to make contact with the center blade and the insert lamps come on.

still no bell sound.

Here is a pic of the relay taken from another members post. It is showing both the upper and lower blades making contact with the center blade is this this correct both switches are to be normally closed?

Does the relay work by having the center blade slide in and out between the upper and lower blades?

 I cant see how the coil can pull in the top blade unless its just stuck? I am not familiar with this relay design.

I never hear the relay getting energized but maybe its too quiet?

If it is a bad relay is there a replacement?

[wolftalk]

the flasher relay is a 6V relay, so it looks different from all the 50V relays.

it behaves the same way tho ... the armature plate should move the middle blade between the two outer blades when the coil is powered and unpowered.  You should be able to move the armature plate onto the coil top to move the middle contact up/down.  If you can't, see what is sticking it.

when unpowered, the middle (connected to wire 30) connects to blue/orange wire 27-3.  The the relay is powered, 30 connects to blue/yellow wire 23-3.

the effect is to alternate lighting the perimeter lights or the winning 777 line when the jackpot relay is powered.

the flasher relay coil has wires 30 and red/yellow 13-3 on the coil lugs.

if you want to test the lights, the easiest thing is set up a 777 win on an enabled line on the reels.  That will cause the associated 1st - 5th jackpot relay to power, and the powered one will cause the jackpot relay to power.  If you 455 lamp is good, you get the flashing.  If your 455 is not flashing, you'll just get the winning 777 line turned on, the others will turn off and no perimeter lights will light.