E2000 Tilt

[Gunk]

Howdy, working on my first Bally, it's an E2000.  After dropping a quarter, it automatically goes to tilt. It will not accept any more quarter thoughit did accept the first one.  When booted up. there's no "50" in the LED...just "0 blank digit.0.00".  After the tilt and reset I get "0.2.8.0.1".    Here's what I know/have done:

- Replaced battery on MPU
- Checked/ohmed out all fuses
- Pulled reel assembly and running turn smooth.  Can reset handle and pull to make reels spin freely
- Ran all self-tests (e.g. hopper test, load test, reel sensors) and everything seems in order.  BTW, load test sounds remind me of Pink Floyd but I digress
- Adjusted tilt microswitch @ hopper to ensure its's not pushed in
- Checked coin assembly and all is working well

Not sure what to do next.  Any ideas?  Thanks

[Badbaud]

Have you tried the newly designed E-series power supply that KLAR sells on their EBAY store?

It solves a lot of zero cross problems and low voltage problems.

[Gunk]

Have you tried the newly designed E-series power supply that KLAR sells on their EBAY store?

It solves a lot of zero cross problems and low voltage problems.

I have not Badbaud.   Just thought I'd see what's going on with it first.  Trying to not sink much $ into it.  Interestingly enough, it did accept a few quarters at one point today and I was able to pull the handle.  It paid out 10 quarters which was correct for the win.  This is good news.  I don't understand what the codes are though and why it almost always tilts after the first coin.  Maybe it is something to do with the coin devices since it worked once?  The solenoid on the coin mechanism is a bit noisy, don't know if that's normal or not.  There's another solenoid inside, under and behind the arm mechanism that periodically croaks at me when I leave the door open. I'm guessing that's intentional.   It's a mystery waiting to be solved...

[Badbaud]

go to www.slotmachinerepair.com and under "helpful PDFs" on top of the page and download the free E series service manual where all codes can be seen.

[Gunk]

go to www.slotmachinerepair.com and under "helpful PDFs" on top of the page and download the free E series service manual where all codes can be seen.

Thank you.  This manual has gotten me to where I am now.  I noticed the door switch was bypassed so may try to put that back together to see if there's an effect.  If I'm reading the manual correctly (p26) that may cause the "50" in the LED which would be correct.  Also just discovered turning the key reveals error codes I'll reference on p26 of the manual. Still in discovery mode.   More to follow...

[Gunk]

Good morning.  Here's an update on trying to diagnose the E2000 tilt problem:

- Symptom is, almost always, machine tilts after first coin played.  It will accept first coin but has a bit noisy solenoid behind the coin comparator.
- Does not have "50" code on LED with door open.  After tilt and reset continue, to get "0.2.8.0.1".  Still don't understand what this codes means and can't decipher from what's in the manual.  Maybe it would help diagnose
- Ohmed out both wires from door (lock side) switch to I/O board and it's good.  Bypassed switch by tying together
- Ran switch test again and confirmed door hinge switch is working.  Pulled switch as far forward as possible. Also tested lock side door switch by disconnecting tied together wires but it failed.  All other switches passed test
- Tested voltages at Power Supply loops and got 5.06v, 7.58v, and 10.75v.  Should be good.  Cleaned connector @ PS, pulled PS, and resoldered all wire interface connections
- Cleaned Mutiple Molexes with electrical cleaning solvent.  Check for pulled wires, etc.  Searched for broken shorted wires but nothing obvious
- Ran load test again multiple times, seems good
- Checked coin operation and seems good
- Pulled I/O board looking for lifted traces; only one and it had been jumped.  Solder connections looked good
- Twice I was able to reset, add five coins, pull handle, and it performed correctly paid out one time and no win another time.  I don't know how this happened nor can I duplicate consistently but it tells me it can works under the right conditions
- I understand the reset key is for accounting purposes and jackpot reset only so I don't need to address it during diagnosis

If anyone had ideas on what next, it would be much appreciated
 

[Badbaud]

still sounds like a weak power supply.

[Gunk]

still sounds like a weak power supply.

Thank you Badbaud.  With the voltages apparently solid, can you help me understand why the power supply might be weak?

[Badbaud]

Diodes mostly, the 4 for the zero cross detect and the undersized full wave bridge.
Lastly the screw and nut that hold the bridge in place destroys the trace under it so you should solder a buss wire from ground on the header to the other side of the bridges ground pin.

[Gunk]

Diodes mostly, the 4 for the zero cross detect and the undersized full wave bridge.
Lastly the screw and nut that hold the bridge in place destroys the trace under it so you should solder a buss wire from ground on the header to the other side of the bridges ground pin.

Thanks Badbaud, will pick up one of your re-designed replacements and give it a go

[Gunk]

Well, replaced the PSU with an updated unit and no joy...still getting tilt.  All load tests are good.  Get tilt after boot up and first coin insert.  Periodically will allow five coins and a handle pull with payout.  That tells me once we get past the tilt, the machine should be OK.  Just like Ross Perot, "I'm all ears"

[Chris-socal]

I have always wondered what the "flow chart" looks like in the code. What triggers a Tilt?  I have an old machine from the early 80's that tilts upon boot and I can't find anything on any machine that says "These conditions will trigger a Tilt".

[Badbaud]

I think it's ghosts in the machine.

Replacing tin board connectors with gold plated pins helps, so does replacing those 2 uF input caps on the regulator inputs really helps, they like to sizzle at a high frequency when old, replacing all KK100 connector pins with fresh ones helps a lot. And so on, till the tilts go away.

[Gunk]

I think it's ghosts in the machine.

Replacing tin board connectors with gold plated pins helps, so does replacing those 2 uF input caps on the regulator inputs really helps, they like to sizzle at a high frequency when old, replacing all KK100 connector pins with fresh ones helps a lot. And so on, till the tilts go away.

Uff da, gonna call Ghostbusters.  Will try to triangulate on these items.  Thanks Badbaud

[Gunk]

I have always wondered what the "flow chart" looks like in the code. What triggers a Tilt?  I have an old machine from the early 80's that tilts upon boot and I can't find anything on any machine that says "These conditions will trigger a Tilt".

I guess there are so many possible Tilt combos they didn't want to document it.  It's odd that the slot intermittently work correctly.  Maybe something simple like a faulty door switch but lock side switch is bypassed.  Might try to reverse that and see if it works

[slcjeeper]

Have you measured the MPU board voltage at the regulator? Watch that voltage during play. Being able to monitor a min & max voltage is helpful.

  I suggest leaving the door lock switch bypassed as it is the more problematic of the 2 door switches. There has to be at least 1 active door switches and the hinge switch is just easier to work with.

 Replacing the power supply is a great start. Have you replaced the power supply harness connectors? If it is original, I would also replace the board ribbon interconnect cable. Look into the green sockets on the boards. The contacts may appear good but can be broken and just lying within the socket. Remember that these connections are roughly 30+ years old and have greatly exceeded their cycle ratings. Most of the pins are rated at about 30 cycles. Imagine how many times the plugs have been unplugged and plugged in over the life of the machine. Sometimes the only way to get ghosts out of a machine is the shotgun approach and to re-pin all connectors. That includes J-connectors. All single wipe sockets also get replaced with double wipe. For my personal machines I now replace every connector in the machine. I have found plenty of broken wires in this process that otherwise wouldn’t have been found. The machines that I bulletproof run flawlessly. The ones I don’t have hiccups every now and again.

[Gunk]

Have you measured the MPU board voltage at the regulator? Watch that voltage during play. Being able to monitor a min & max voltage is helpful.

  I suggest leaving the door lock switch bypassed as it is the more problematic of the 2 door switches. There has to be at least 1 active door switches and the hinge switch is just easier to work with.

 Replacing the power supply is a great start. Have you replaced the power supply harness connectors? If it is original, I would also replace the board ribbon interconnect cable. Look into the green sockets on the boards. The contacts may appear good but can be broken and just lying within the socket. Remember that these connections are roughly 30+ years old and have greatly exceeded their cycle ratings. Most of the pins are rated at about 30 cycles. Imagine how many times the plugs have been unplugged and plugged in over the life of the machine. Sometimes the only way to get ghosts out of a machine is the shotgun approach and to re-pin all connectors. That includes J-connectors. All single wipe sockets also get replaced with double wipe. For my personal machines I now replace every connector in the machine. I have found plenty of broken wires in this process that otherwise wouldn’t have been found. The machines that I bulletproof run flawlessly. The ones I don’t have hiccups every now and again.

slcjeeper, thanks for the recommendations.  Definitely some good thoughts I'll tackle this weekend.  I have not measured the MPU voltage @ the regulator but will nor have I replaced any connectors/cables.  Will give them all a good look as well as the green sockets.