I am a new member from South of England. I need help with this Bally Slot.

[Bigbenuk]

Hello Everyone and thank you for allowing me to join this wonderful forum website! Its great to be here!

I am not completely new to One Armed Bandits although so far have only completed a few repairs of my own machines and that of a friends. A couple of weeks ago a friend brought me his machine as it had stopped working - wouldn't accept coins and seemed unresponsive on the electrical side.

I have been gradually dismantling the machine to investigate the problem before replacing any of the numerous lights that need changing due to the tubes and bulbs being blown. I know I have probably been ignoring the big issue of the transformer. To be honest the problem is staring me in the face. The rusty transformer that to be honest I am frightened of! I have yet to remove it to see if there are any identify marks and numbers on the side, and was wondering what everyone's impression is of it? A couple of things really:

Do you think it is kaput?
How do I test it without removing the wires?
How easy is it to identify the type to obtain a replacement?

It is running on 240 UK electrics although some components are rated 250v ac.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I know the knowledge of the members here far out way my experience. Thanks.

[DavidLee]

The rust shouldn’t be an issue and thanks for post clear well lighted pictures.

Since the light bulbs and neon lamps are working.
I would assume the transformer and fuses are good.

Best to inspect all wires, connections and mechanical parts for anything that looks out of order.
For instance, cut or broken wires, excessive dirty contacts or contacts out of alignment.
Mechanical components dirty and or not functioning properly.

Most likely the machine electrical contacts could be dirty causing problems.

If the machine will not accept coins.
The first thing to inspect would be the coin mechanism and the coin-in switch.
Located in the door.

The second thing to inspect would be the coin-in relay located bottom left of the reels chassis.
It’s partly operated by a latch switch and the contacts are vertical in most Bally machines.
In some cases a lite cleaning will help.

Post a photo of the tag on the exterior of the machine near the bottom left of the handle.
And one of the door viewing the inside back of the door.

[Bigbenuk]

Thank you David for your extremely helpful reply. Your knowledge and experience has given me some hope and encouragement that I can sort this machine. When you are working alone and getting nowhere it can seem as if you are constantly chasing your tail.

I could not find a nameplate on the side of the machine as you suggested I look for, maybe it has been removed at some stage and never replaced. I have a similar machine of my own and that does have a nameplate. As you can see from the photos of inside the door there are some letters and numbers which do not mean anything to me but obviously it could be a clue to the origin.

The blue micro switch inside the front door I have checked with a multimeter for continuity when depressed and it seems to be working ok. The solenoid coil above it I ordered and received a replacement just in case this was not working correctly as when the machine is switched on and I can see lights working I get no power going to that solenoid coil? Originally when a coin was inserted in the coin slot on the front door the coin would end up rolling to the right of the coin mechanism rather than dropping vertically engaging the wire "rat tail" of the blue micro switch.

In another photo I am showing the safety timer located at the back of the machine which does light the indicator light and has continuity but from looking at its condition probably needs to be taken out and given a good clean up for corrasion purposes?

I am going to carrying on checking the wires tomorrow as you suggested and while I am at it replace the blown bulbs - not sure whether this has anything to do with the running of the machine them being inoperative? 

[Bigbenuk]

Another couple of photos showing the safety timer.

[DavidLee]

So you have detected an area of concern.

The safety timer is reset by the white button.
In most machines it’s reset by a slid bar extending to the front of the machine.

Keep this in mind, it’s best to work in/on one area/problem at a time.

Making two or three adjustments at one time may cause
additional problems and be much harder to solve.

[Bigbenuk]

Thanks David yes you are right I will concentrate on one area at a time.

I will concentrate on the transformer first to establish voltages. If I am not getting the correct voltages no point in moving on.

Just a shame I cannot identify the model of the machine to be able to search for a wiring diagram.

[DavidLee]

Sometimes the model number is marked on one or more of the components by service mechanics.

[Bigbenuk]

I didn't know that? Thanks for the heads up, I will pay particular attention when inspecting.

[wolftalk]

when the safety timer trips, the red "neon" light turns on and usually all power to the game is gone ... so you wouldn't get any other lights and nothing would work.

the safety timer itself is a motor driven unit which winds up.  If the motor is powered long enough the unit will mechanically open a switch.  When power is removed, the wind-up part should reset to start the process over again.

the conventional voltages in the game except the mains input are:

solid yellow wire - neutral
solid orange wire - 50VAC - your game has orange/black
solid blue wire - 6VAC

in other words, stick the meter probe on the yellow wire on the transformer and poke orange/black and blue with the other probe.  Transformers rarely fail, so it's not likely to be a problem.  You can follow the wires to the fuses and poke there as well.

your pink wire on the transformer lug is not something bally would do ... and they didn't use pink.

your game looks like it's been thru the hands of a remanufacturer as the way the wire bundles are tied and the use of microswitches in various places isn't how bally made the games - however, no big deal as they probably simplified things.  Most games made for the UK market had hold-and-draw, while yours doesn't.

there should be codes stamped into the slotted metal reel index discs ... what does it say?  Also, can you post pictures of what's inside the upper compartment and the sides/rear of the reel mechanism as well as the sides/rear of the hopper.  If there's a payout counter on the hopper, a pic showing the M-645-xxx number and the wiring attached is helpful.

[Bigbenuk]

My word Wolftalk, I cannot thank you enough for this tremendous help. I really appreciate you taking the time to compose your message.

I will upload more photos of the machine tomorrow as I plan to spend the weekend exploring this machine further. I did place the multimeter probe across the terminals on the transformer and was encourage to get voltages of around 60v and some lower voltages of around 8v. I will try and make a drawing showing my findings against the respective coloured wires and terminal lugs.

Thanks again Wolftalk I am learning a great deal.

[wolftalk]

60V and 8V is a little high.   54V and 7V is typical.

the transformer can be wired/jumpered for 120/220/240V.  Looks like your transformer is wired for 240V, assuming the lug with the black wires is jumpered to the lug to the left of it.

are your mains 220V?

[Bigbenuk]

I cleaned the rust off the transformer and placed the meter probes on the various terminals as you suggested and I was delighted to find the voltages you mentioned. Thanks for that help Wolf.

I have taken photos of the different sides of the reels, the same with the hopper assembly and as you mentioned the top cabinet of the machine containing 3 coin mechanisms. At the back of the top cabinet are 5 OMRON MY4 48v relays.

I was able to notice a marking on the first reel disc stamped "JJ*1" I was not able to view the other 2 reels at this time.

[Bigbenuk]

I forgot to mention the machine is 240v UK mains. Below are additional photos of the reel mechanism and payout hopper.

[wolftalk]

index disks with JJ-x were used on model 773 - jolly joker.  There should be 20 stops (symbols) on each reel.

however, that's not what your machine is as jolly joker didn't have a top compartment.

bally documentation won't be of much use as a lot of the internals have been replaced, but that shouldn't stop you from figuring it out.

the basic spin and pay will be similar to bally circuits ... goes thru the reel wiper boards to power a trace on the payout counter. 

the coin handling due to change making and 5 plays for 10p will be the complicated part.  Suggest you focus on getting the game to work using the coin door 2p coin switch, as the little step unit on the left/rear of the reel mech is probably not relevant for that.

I assume there's still some kind of handle release relay inside the cabinet above the handle box.   You'll want to see how the coil on that gets powered.  If one coil lug has the orange/black wire, that's the 50V power.   You'd want to follow the other coil wire to see where it goes - I'd guess one of the relays in the top.

the omni relays may all be the same, so you can swap them around if they are.

another test is manually trip the handle release relay and spin.  If you get a win, does it pay?   You can set up a win by grabbing the clock fan on the left of the reel mech after the reels kick off.  With the fan not spinning, you can set a reel into the you want.  Let go of the fan until the reel locks and grab the fan again to position the next reel, etc.

if you're having trouble with the safety timer unit, you can just bypass it.  The purpose of it is to more-or-less prevent the hopper from running forever and dumping out all the coin is there's a fault in the payout circuit.  For home use, you don't really care.   The timer is just a motor tho, so if it's not working it's usually just gunked up.

 

[Bigbenuk]

Thank you once again Wolftalk! I have certainly hit "Gold" joining this forum! I have never experienced the kindness shown to me so far with this little machine I am trying to fix for my dear friend.

The knowledge you have Wolftalk has completely astounded me. The thing is, you have explained everything in easy to understand language that a newbee like me could understand. I have put into practice some of the things you have said and it has actually worked!

I had some great advice from David Lee for which I am truly grateful and now your help as well Wolftalk - I feel as though I am beginning to understand the workings.

I measured the voltage going to the OMRON Relays and was a bit disappointed to only find minimal readings of between 3volts on the far right relay nearest the handle mechanism and then the other 4 relays going from right to left reading maining 4volts. The far left relay roundabout 6volts. Now these have a rating of 48v AC and so I wondered if they increased their voltage once the reel mechanism was in place?

Below I have added more photos I took yesterday should anything jump out at you as not being correct or something about the machine that gives a bit more insight to its history.

[wolftalk]

your hopper is a relatively unmolested bally hopper - notice the wiring was bundled with a waxed string.

the hopper plug is missing the top big/round pin.  You'll want to look at the wiring side to see if a wire is attached to the lug at that position.

the relay on the back of the hopper is the payout relay.  When a win happens, that relay powers for the duration of the payout, and switches on that relay turn on the hopper motor.

since your payout relay has the standard bally wiring, the orange wire on the coil is the 50V power (orange/black wire on your transformer which traditionally would become solid orange at the 50V fuse).  If you want to test the relay and hopper, you'd want to jumper the grey/yellow wire on the other coil lug to the yellow wire on the transformer when the hopper is installed.

usually the yellow wire on the transformer goes to the common lug on the coin switch on the door, but you don't have that color on your coin switch and dunno how they wired it - worst case is they change color at plug connections or solder different colored wires together so you can't rely on the colors.

anyway, get the game to accept a coin and release the handle so you can spin, then ya can worry about any payout issues. 

not sure where you're measuring voltages on the omron relays, but usually you won't see 50V on the relay coil terminals because the relays aren't held powered.  They are powered for short durations when something needs to happen.

[Bigbenuk]

Thanks again Wolftalk all your information has been invaluable. I really appreciate the time you have taken. I am working on this machine right now and the tips you have supplied are very useful for me to understand how the machine works. I have another Bally machine almost the same but without the top coin mechanisms it just hold a tube light fitting. That machine has bulb holders missing from the front door that fit into a circuit board. So far I have not been able to find the correct bulb holders as they are not T10 but that will have to be in another thread.