IGT G23 AVP 3.0 Intermittent voucher printing issue

[Nuwavusa]

Hi I have an IGT G23 AVP 3.0 with Tito .
Most of the time it will print vouchers fine. Occasionally
and it seems to happen if it’s been sitting for a while,
when I cash out it displays hand pay required.
It could be $300 or $3000 it doesn’t matter.


Any suggestions?


Thank you
Mark

[bpracer]

Hi I have an IGT G23 AVP 3.0 with Tito .
Most of the time it will print vouchers fine. Occasionally
and it seems to happen if it’s been sitting for a while,
when I cash out it displays hand pay required.
It could be $300 or $3000 it doesn’t matter.


Any suggestions?


Thank you
Mark

I'm seeing the exact same thing on an SMLD. 

I have mine setup so when you hit the service button you get $100 in free credit play, this works 100% of the time.

When you hit cash out it shows the cash out request immediately and after a short delay goes to hand pay, this happens about 25 to 50% of the time.

What printer are you running?  Mine has the Epic 950.

[Nuwavusa]

I have a FL Gen2 printer . Mine works fine approximately
4 out 5 times ... strange?

[rickhunter]

Has nothing to do with the printer though, happens to me all the time.  I just push the reset button on the tito board and it works again.

[Nuwavusa]

Yes I agree it’s not the printer. Mine seems
to do it once it has sit for while. I have
the network version of the Tito’s on my
Bally’s (s9e, A1 V32)and never once had an issue .
I’ll probably swap out the Tito for testing.


The one on my IGT G23 is the non network version.


Im thinking maybe it’s an issue with the Tito going into
a sleep mode and the IGTs are not sending the signal
to wake it up ?

[BettorSlots]

I have run into this issue a couple of times with other customers however definitely not all.  The test machine at the warehouse that I have run all day long for testing kits and other things has never timed out.  Once the Tito links with the machine it does not time out unless the communication is broken for some reason on the other end.  What I am getting at here is that this is not a programming issue with the machine but rather a mechanical one.  In the handful of cases I had where the machine was either not communicating at all or having intermittent communication like you are have, the problem was resolved by moving the RS232 Comm relay board to another available port.  You have 4 ports to choose from on the backplane to move the relay board to (Comm 1, 2, 3, and 4).  Since the casino likely used Comm 1 and 2, and its possible their player tracking equipment shorted out the port, I suggest moving it to Comm 3 or 4 and testing again.  Note that once moved, you need to go into the eKey 7 menu, Comm, and where you setup for Comm 1, change it to the port you are now using.  Give it a try and see if any better results.

[Nervusbreakdown]

Did you check the player tracking?


I had a problem where it went into a hand pay but when the player service checked on the tracker it showed nothing. I un-linked and re-linked the machine and then it start working.

[bpracer]

I have tried comm 2 and 3 with the same results, comm 4 is already in use on this machine.

I also tried a different RS232 card but no luck.

I tried a second TITO card but no luck.

I have moved the TITO to a WMS machine and it works fine without any issues.

So it appears to be a communication issue specific to the SMLD that I'm trying to use TITO on?

[rickhunter]

Happens on my G23 as well.  I've tried what you have and it does the same thing.  On my G20 I've never had the issue.

[BettorSlots]

It pains me to read some of you are having problems with timeouts and so I'm just gonna spill what's banging through my head to see if anyone can make sense of it and a possible solution.


In reading all this I phoned a past customer from a couple years ago that has G20's, SMLD, and one G23 and asked if he had run into any of these issues with any of his machines.  I knew he would be good to ask because he uses the machines often and he has the Deluxe TITO models installed.  And, in fact he sent a nice email about a Christmas party tourney he setup that went a few hours this past year telling me what fun they had.  I'm being told he has not had this issue at all.  But to come to a solid conclusion I asked while I was on the phone if he could start up his G23 and print a ticket right from boot up which it did. 



I then asked him to print after 15 minutes, a half hour, and so on and text me with the results.  He still is reporting no issues with printing, receiving, or APP use problems with regards to timeouts specific to this machine type (G23) or any of his machines.  I phoned again just a bit ago and asked him to take a look at the part number on the backplane...I will mention why in a minute here.  Anyway for what its worth he said the original IGT P/N sticker had been marked over with a Sharpie and covered mostly by a new sticker with number #1990640.  Not sure it matters here but just a mention that in at least this case the backplane was revised.


Here is what I know...  I know that from my experience in selling over 4,000 of these TITO boards over the years that the casinos player tracking equipment can be brutal on the backplane comm ports and related power to it.  This has been most prevalent on the WMS Bluebird as the the no comm at all or intermittent time out was related to the Comm 1 port.  The solution was either to switch to Comm 2 or in some cases change out the backplane entirely...and afterwards problem solved. I have run into this issue in about 1 out of 10 machines which I consider a high number.


I also want to mention that over the years we found that on the IGT S2000's and IGames that in some cases (rare but happens) an internal electromagnetic field caused issues with the TITO timeouts which I believe to be related to the power distribution box.  Solution in all of those cases was to move the TITO board as far away from it as possible rather than where placement is shown in the manual directly next to it.


With AVP's coming on the seen in the past couple years I have had a few issues of course come up with boards distributed or machines at the shop.  I found in some cases, like the WMS BB's, where I believe the casinos player tracking equipment created an internal surge that either fully or partially damaged the Comm port (either no work at all or intermittently worked).  I can't speak as much for the G23's I have had around because there have not been that many, but the ones that were I know the TITO's are working without problems.


So with all that in mind above it leads me to think about things this way.  Since it's reported that when moving the TITO to another machine type the problem goes away you have to stop looking at the TITO board and instead the machine itself.  Is either of these things mentioned below a possibility?


1)  The G23's have a unique power setup compared to say that of a G20 or SMLD specific to it's cabinet layout and its power requirements.  Is it possible there is an internal electromagnetic field causing an interruption in comms forcing a reset of the TITO board?  I wish I could test this idea but I don't have a G23 around right now, but what would happen if the serial cable was lengthened a couple feet by cutting and soldering on wire extensions so that the TITO board could be located outside the machine...say mounted on the back of the cabinet and up and away from power?  Could any improvement be seen here?


2)  This idea is going to be hard to test unless you have two G23's side by side, one working consistently with TITO and the other not.  I know many of you have had run-ins with say a partially faulty power supply where it works initially then goes out after a half hour after it overheats.  Or in reverse, it doesn't work at first but after letting it run for awhile it finally kicks in and runs.  Knowing that you can have a partially faulty, yet functioning power supply the same can be true on any board where you it fails or works intermittently.  Whatever is delivering power and comm to the ports can fail with overheating and then kick in again right after.  Seems a logical approach would be to take the known working backplane and moving it to the intermittently working machine and test again.  If it works then after that then you can conclude faulty comm's on backplane.


Don't know if any of this information helps...but based on my experience working with these for many years now it's just what is going through my head as to what my be happening here.

[rickhunter]

On my G23, the TITO deluxe is sitting right on top of the mpu box, immediately to the left of the main power supply.  I will move it up to the top of the cabinet and report back.

[Nuwavusa]

Is everyone that’s having Tito -timeout /hand pay
required-issues with their IGT AVP using the side
backplane card for 5vdc usb power ?


As pictured.

[rickhunter]

I am using the 5v usb A/C adaptor that came with the Tito board.  I've found that on various cabinets (BB2 cpus most prevalent) that the board has issues with the power.  The board may draw more than the .5 amps that the original USB 2.0 spec delivers, so I always use the USB power adapter to avoid issues.

[Nuwavusa]

Yes I agree it’s better and safer being the adapter
is rated an 1amp . The deluxe version of the TITO
draws .21 amps . So technically running
it from a usb igt backplane port rated at
.5 amps should be fine.


My Bally’s have an a/c power outlet box
which allows me to use included usb power
adapter. The IGT G23 AVP does not have
an a/c power outlet box.


On your AVP where are you running your usb power adapter from ?

[bpracer]

Is everyone that’s having Tito -timeout /hand pay
required-issues with their IGT AVP using the side
backplane card for 5vdc usb power ?


As pictured.

I have tried using the supplied USB adapter plugged in to an external power source and I have also pulled 12v DC from the machine and powered the card through the power jack.  These boards have a 7-12v DC power recommendation and an absolute voltage of 6-20v DC.

I have been on the road and have not had a chance to do any additional testing.

I'm going to make a long communication cable and move the TITO outside of the machine and power it with the supplied power cable.

This will allow me to see if the lights are blinking and do some additional trouble shooting when attempting to cash out.

[Nuwavusa]

Great 👍 idea... pls post results .

[rickhunter]

IGT G23's do have an ac power plug inside the machine.  It is located on the bottom right side of the cabinet,  the reason you probably can't find it, it's because it is kind of "hidden"  If I remember correctly, the plug is facing downwards on the power distribution assembly (the one to the right of the main power supply).

[bpracer]

I have moved the TITO out of the machine and still have the same Issue.

Mine does not seem to be a timeout issue.  I can hit the free credit play and get the credits, hit the max bet a few times and then hit the cashout and in one out of about every 4 or 5 tries I get the "Requesting Cashout Validation, Please wait"  and after a short period it goes to Handpay.  I clear the hand pay, press the free credit button, spin the reels, press cashout and the machine will cash out.

The lights on the TITO look normal, while adding free credits, playing the machine and trying to cashout.

Not a real big deal since I really only use the TITO to add credits but I would like to figure it out.

I'm using the supplied power adapter plugged into an external outlet.

I'm going to have to think about this one for a bit!

[coolwavepic]

Hey guys for it’s an OS issue. It happens all the time with the game king OS but never with b03. Check which is you have and report back.

[rickhunter]

I have b03 and it still times out on my g23 intermittently.  On my g20 it seems to work right all the time.