Bally E1000 - test 5 shows 0.0.0.0

[carniello]

Hi all,


I purchased 2 bally E1000 slots, status was non- working. I had to re-pin the power supply connectors to get these to power on.
Anyway, I have one almost going.


When I play the slot, I coin it up and pull the arm. Reels spin and stop normally. The insert coin light will not come on. I reset slot and try again, same thing. If I disconnect J1 cable on reel reader control board, slot plays correct except, if the reels show a win, game does not recognize it.


Test 5 always shows 0.0.0.0. When I remove pin 2 from J1 on reel reader control board, the display changes to 1.7.7.7.
I then replace pin 2 on J1 and display still shows 1.7.7.7.


I have a spare I/O board that works(dehellis helped me in a previous post)  and a spare reel reader board and the problem did not change.


I tried to test the position reel assy with an external +5v power supply and could not really understand instructions.


I have only the first position reel assy installed and trying to trouble shoot. I'm measuring voltages of pins 2,3,4,5,6, off pin J3 on reel reader board and blocking sensors and voltage is not changing (frame ground reference).


pin2 ~1.1
pin3 ~1.1
pin4 ~1.1
pin5 ~4.9
pin6 ~1.1


When i block light it seems like voltage goes up ~.1 volt.




What should I test next? I hate to start shotgunning this by replacing IC's.


What do you think?

[dhellis]

Where do I start. OK, 0.0.0.0 can be caused by the reel reader decoder you show it hanging with
both of the connecting cables below the reel bundle, it can also be caused by a defective component
on the I/O board, most likely U8 and you can use a 74LS367 (I think, or 74LS368) as a replacement.

I can see in the photo that you have 50 volt reader cards, this is known because you can see the large resistor.

The reel reader cards have 16 pins but they are in pairs, 1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6, 7 & 8, 9 & 10 are for the photo
transistors collectors, pin 11 is the common emitter, pin 12 is blank, pins 13 & 14 are Ground and pins 15 & 16
are the 50 volt supply for the lamps.

When testing these cards you want to (ideally) apply 5 volts to each in, one at a time and then measure the
voltage on pin 11 of the card. A good phototransistor should measure somewhere around 4.7 volts on pin 11 when
unblocked, when blocked voltage should be near 0 (zero volts) Measure one set of pins at a time

Alternately one of our other members posted another method of testing these reel readers, you can read
GOS's post here  http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=12461.0 and also download the spreadsheet
that he provided.  THANK YOU GOS

The decoder board only has 3 IC's so if the problem persists I would change them all. If you can not find the
74C14 then use a CD40106 or CD4069 as a replacement. I do not recommend using the standard TTL version (7414) because
of propagation delay or the time it takes to switch from a logic high to a logic low and vice versa.
You can also use a 7408 as a replacement for the 7417 but there is no replacement for the 74145

[carniello]

I have a question. I am looking at the schematics and I cannot see how U8 on the I/O board does anything with the control or reading of the reels.


From the schematics, I see that the reel reader board goes to I/O board J1, J3, and J4.
U8 on I/O board goes to J2 on I/O board.


Thanks  for replying!




I'm off to test position readers.


John

[carniello]

Ok, I tested all the position readers (3 on this game and 3 more on my other spare untested game) using a +5 volt pc power supply. 4 out of 6 had one bad receiver. I made 3 good ones and installed in my game.


I still have exactly the same problem.


I have a question. On a fully functioning game, if you unplug J1 on reel reader board, will you get 0.0.0.0 on the display for test 5? The reason I'm asking this is that the problem probably resides on reel reader board is this is true.


I haven't decided if I'm going to try U8 on I/O board or the 3 chips on reel reader board. I'm going to do more trouble shooting. I will update when I have more information.


John

[dhellis]

Let me respond to both of your posts at the same time.

A defective U8 is something that I had in my notes, where someone had an identical problem.
Looking at the schematic you can see that this chip is used on IO port 4 which happens to be
the port that is associated with the reel readers and if you run test #2 you should hear the reel
stop solenoids close, at the same time the window will display 401, 402, 404.

Q32 on the IO board turns on the reel reader lamps.

I would think that the problem resides in the reel reader decoder since it too will give a 0.0.0.0 error
as it can not determine what symbols should be showing.

[carniello]

Dhellis,

A defective U8 is something that I had in my notes, where someone had an identical problem.
Looking at the schematic you can see that this chip is used on IO port 4 which happens to be
the port that is associated with the reel readers and if you run test #2 you should hear the reel
stop solenoids close, at the same time the window will display 401, 402, 404.

Running test 2, the stop solenoids close with the appropriate display.


I will replace chips on reel reader and update.


John

[carniello]

replaced the 3 ic's on reel reader board, still same problem. I kind of knew this was going to happen because I have another reel reader board that I tried.


I made a type error in a past post in this thread. If I remove the J1 cable on reel reader board and run test 5, I get 1.7.7.7. in the display.
I'm just wondering if this is normal on a working game and if anyone can test this out for me?


I'm going to do more trouble shooting and will update.


Thanks,


John

[GOS]

0000 reader test - can be the IO - bad reader control board (connections) - bad reel mech connections (molex or beau) - removing the  cable services no purpose as the readers are in series.

[carniello]

[size=0px]"removing the  cable services no purpose as the readers are in series"[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=0px]J3 on the reel reader board goes to the position readers. J1 goes to I/O board. Test 5 shows 1.7.7.7 when J1 is disconnected. [/size][size=0px]

[/size][size=0px]I am trying to isolate problem. I looked at it again last night with an oscilloscope. When I have everything attached, no reels installed so the position reader sensors are sensing light, I should see approx 4-5 volts on lines 2,3,4,5,6 on J3 (reel reader board)? When I block sensors, should voltage change? Nothing changes when I block sensors...[/size][size=0px]

[carniello]

Update on test 5 shows 0.0.0.0


Ok, remember I have two complete games. So I move the mpu, I/O to machine #2 and test #5 works correctly! If I block all sensors, I get 1.7.7.7. I also hooked up my oscope and looked at waveforms so when I move boards back to machine #1 I can troubleshoot appropriately.


Machine #1 reel assy has no molex connector on top, only connectors on back( I can't remember what their called ).
Machine #2 reel assy has one molex connector on top and connectors on back. This means I cannot swap reel assys.
I can swap reel reader boards and reel position boards but thats all.


I believe I have a harness/wiring issue.


More to come!
 

[Amechanic]

As long as both machines have the same reel readers, 50V or 5V then yes you can swap them and the control board. The plugs on the back are called a beau plug..

[carniello]

ok, made some headway today!


I moved boards back to machine #1. Same problem with test 5 shows 0.0.0.0.
I modified the harness on machine #1 to match #2.
J4 pin 9   to J2 pin 11
J4 pin 10 to J2 pin 12
J4 pin 11 to J2 pin 13


Now test 5 shows 1.7.7.7.


I'm going to compare more of the harness tomorrow...


Enough for tonight, more to come

[carniello]

Ok, I gave up on machine #1. I have machine #2 fully working. I like #2 better as it has a sound card in it.


case closed