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Author Topic: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature  (Read 11975 times)

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Offline zinda

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Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« on: April 29, 2014, 03:34:12 PM »
I have a model 783 Old Sir Prize that was changed into a "Matador" I have completely dissasembled, cleaned, reassembled, Changed out bad relay switches, rewired the wiper plates and most of the beau plugs, retooled the index wheels to match the symbols (first scanned each one, then drew up a mock plate for each reel tape strip accoding to the symbols, used a drawing program to make overlays of eack plate then tried to find the best matched existing plate to the mock sets). This was the most time consuming part of the fix. I found that the index plates were so far off from the symbols that the least changes I had to make was 3 on 1 plate (either filling with weld or cutting deeper slots). The other 2 had as many as 15 changes on each plate to get them to index properly.
  This machine has very limited resources to aid in this rebuild, no schematics are avilable and so few pictures of any Hold & Draw Machines let alone a Sir Prize Machine to be found anywhere. I did obtain a service manual for some Hold & Draw type machines but of course they are for machines that have not been converted to other models. Meaning the manuals were how the machines were made before the laws changed in Great Britian, as most know, the laws outlawed many machines and to make them useable once again they were rwwired to make them legal. Part of the problems were regulations set on JP size and making them less of a "chance only" type game. Which means they had to have some user control over the outcome. This was a 1P game which is a Pence or Penny, at least that's what the Glass has on it. The hopper has a 6 Pence disc in it, or basically the British Nickle, The PO listing on the glass show highest being 200 coins and the next highest 100 coins. The new laws limited the JP size to only 20 coins, meaning a 20 cent JP! But did allow the use of tokens to be used also. Those machines accepted both coins and Tokens, using a coin scavenger to separate the coins from tokens, coind went to the hopper nd tokens went to a box, some Machines would give 2 pulls per token and had a pay out Tube for tokens and were redeemed by the propreiter for goods.
 My hopper has a payout of 50 coins max, so now I know that the is no matching parts in this machine at all!
  When I fisrt got this machine it would only light up, as I went through it I found all these other problems, slowly I was able to get it to a point now where it plays 1 pull for 1 quarter, the symbols match the reel index, the Hold & Draw features now work, the Pay Outs are working (Cherries,  Lemons, Oranges and wild card Matching in the 3rd reel also work but not 3 matching wild cards or anything higher).
I'm sure that these are issues with beau plug contacts or pay out disc contacts.
  The question I have now is if anyone has ever added a feature to any machines?
  I have an idea to replace the useless Sir Prize Unit with a homemade feature idea that will allow a random payout of any amounts activated by a Matching Highest Paid symbol landing on the PO Line in any postion, mine would be the "M" symbol. I' have reworked a feature unit to step on every pull, removed the reset, the spring and the stops, reworked the copper contacts that go to a 2 rowed circular wiper plate. I have 1 short contactor that connects the inner row of pins and have 6 longer contact blades going to the outer row of pins. I will wire the M symbols from each wiper board on the reels using a separate switching area with its own 50 volt feed


Offline Op-Bell

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 12:33:07 AM »
This is the best I can do for a picture (below). I'm afraid I have no schematics.

I also have a converted Sir Prize, that had been rigged to pay a maximum of 10 coins. It didn't need a lot of work to change it into a normal Money Honey type machine because whoever converted it had already put on a different set of index plates. All I had to do was add a couple of wires to restore the "any position" payouts, make new reel strips and front glass, and put on a new hopper board and snail cam. I thought the payout percentage would be truly miserable before the conversion but it turned out to be around 80%. Adding the larger jackpot pays didn't make that much difference. Restoring the "any position" pays put it up around 97%. The Sir Prize unit had been removed from my machine before I got it.


Offline zinda

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 09:54:19 PM »
Having a hard time posting a reply!
This is the 3rd attempt, keeps saying fatal error or I've already posted this reply!
Funny thing is the original message was never even sent? I don't know how it was even posted since it disappeared while I was in the middle of of editing it.  But never the less there it is and now I'm finding it impossible to get my reply out. I have pictures of my new problem.

   Now that I've had a chance to play the machine and found out it's weaknesses and was gearing up to start installing the new feature unit, I noticed I'm not getting any PO for anything above 10 coins! Checked every wire every contact from reel wipers to hopper and everything is good even have voltage at the post connection on the pay out board.
Then I look closely at the pay out board thinking the has to be a wiper blade connection problem and as I'm putting the blade back on I notice that this wiper board has only 2, 4, 6, 8 & 10 coins paths that go to home and get energized from there!

 The 14 coin path starts after the 10 coin path does a zig zag that looks to pass the current on to that path! Then on higher amounts the same thing occurs on the 14 coin paths zig zags to pass the power onto the 20 coin path!
   
 So what's the deal? Do I need to have the 10 coin path energized while I'm paying out a 14 and higher PO?
 
Then do I need to run another wire to get the 20 coin hot from the 14 coin path also?

I've provided a picture of this thing, I was looking into getting another PO disc that will have the correct amounts as shown on the glass but sellers are way too overpriced on these parts so I'll wait till I see one at a sensible price.  What do I need to do to work with this one? I'll rewire the Reel Wiper Boards again if needed when I add my New Feature Unit.

That's the other part of my original question. If I run a Feature unit that will pay random amounts set by a continuosly advancing step unit, Have it connected to advance at the handle pull or coin relay circuit and be energized through the reel wipers from the highest Paying symbol landing any place on the pay line. Then have 3 divisions on that feature disc one for each reel, so there's up to 3 chances to hit the jack pot amounts by chance (unless all three are hot then its an automatic High JP).
 I'll have the feature wired to the hopper in parallel with the reel wipers but use a separate switching area on the wiper plates with a 50 volt line in on each one. Since it will be using the reel wipers PO wires that run to the hopper directly I don't think I'll need to isolate the circuit.
  I'll wire the Feature to have payouts scattered about the pins and have them be represented as they are by possible chances shown on the reels. there could be 1 pin for High JP and 2 for the next highest and so on. Making it be an automatic high JP if you land all 3 on the line. landing 1 could hit the JP also but with more chances of landing on 2 coins than any other. I feel this will make this machine much more fun and probably make it the best one I have. I,m thinking about adding another set of lights to represent the feature unit activation and maybe even a candle to the top with the top light lit when it's energized and layered lights to light up if one of the 2 highest PO's are hit. Of course I'll have to add a relay to do that.

I'm atatching a picture of the hopper PO disc, the Feature Unit, My Sir Prize Unit with labels and wiring as I believe it needs to be configured (but don't know what it should be doing) and a drawing of the Reel wiper barads for my machine. I'm not sure if other Sir Prize machines will have similar pay out configurations but this may help others to see this all in one picture.
 
                 Any thoughts on this would be helpful so I'm not finding things out after I made the changes.

Offline Op-Bell

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 10:38:00 PM »
Well, that's interesting. A full picture of the hopper PCB would be even more interesting. It looks like an authentic Bally part, but it's only half a board, and no snail cam, so it's not clear to me how the machine could pay out more than 50 coins. My guess is this is the original 1967 Sir Prize hopper board, which had payouts from 2 to 20. Don't know how that wire came to be on the 50 track.

The arrangement of the 2-4-6 tracks is strange. Normally these would be three segments sharing the same wiper, connected to the first, second and third cherries respectively. There appears to be no connection between the wipers and tracks above 10. That means for payouts over 10, (except for the 50) something else has to carry the current. There's probably a relay that energizes the 10 track for 14, 18, 20, 25 wins. But that's no help for the 100 and 200 wins. Is there another counter in there, maybe an electrically stepped counter working off the contacts on the coin roller?

The reason the tracks zig-zag out is that the outermost wiper moves the greatest distance on every step, so they're all brought out to finish on this wiper because it has the biggest dead area to step into.

(Thinks) You could wire up another set of studs on the 14-18-20 payouts to energize the pays-10 track. I bet that's how it was done originally.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 01:38:52 AM by Op-Bell »

Offline zinda

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 08:05:55 AM »
As far as the wiring that you see now, that was added by me, it only had wires going to the 2, 4, 6, 8, & 10 I believe. I'll have to did through my 1st pictures I took of it.
  I can't help but think that the Sir Prize unit is somehow part of the JP circuit by allowing it to repeat the pay outs through the 50 coin line being reset 4 times and repeated by the Sir Prize unit, When It reaches the 4th time it then resets itself and stops the pay outs.
 There is nothing connected to the SIR PRIZE Units indexing part, there is no bake lite board connected to it so I can't imagine how it was doing anything other than being able to control the number of times some other circuit would be repeated. It's adjustable, mine is set to 3 times before it breaks the contact on the switch, the second switch will open and send the signal to the reset coil. I can't see what else it would be there to do unless it is part of the number of games per coin controller. I was considering trying to make it work in that capacity, Using it to advance on the coin drop and then on the handle pull and then again on the next handle pull, then it would reset directly after that. The only problem I can see is it might make the hold and draw not work. It also may be a problem keeping the circuit open for the second play with out changing the way some switches work and cause a major headache in the long run.
   Since it has Regular JP and Sir Prize JP relays I have to say that it is in some way responsible for the High JP Payouts in regular game play but if that's true then it needs to use the 25 coin PO repeated 4 times and the 50 coin repeated 4 times but the PO Board had no wires running to either of those originally.
 Another thing I'm not seeing is how the step up circuit is controlling anything other than a light and resetting it's self, the 1st switch is the zero or at top ready position just to tell that it was reset. The second switch is for the Sir Prize light and there is another switch shown in some pictures I've seen that shows a Green/Yellow wire running to another switch just like the 2nd one which will open on the last step to trigger the return. Mine is probably lacking the light switch since there is no light on my machine.What I'm saying is the switches only control the Sir Prize Units Advancing and returning and how many times it's stepped is counted by the step up arm switch on the bottom. But that's said to be run to the in out counter (I don't know why that would be).
 As far as the PO board goes, I tried wiring my reel wiper boards to make the 10 coin hot when the higher payouts are hot and it didn't work for some reason. It didn't even make the 10 coin PO happen. Touching a jumper from the transformer makes it work so I have a problem elsewhere. I've tested every wire path from 50 volt on the reel wipers through every connection on the reel boards and then to the hopper and all are good. I'm looking into a few slots I re-cut on the Reel index plates today, I think I have 1 or 2 slots that may have been cut too deep or not enough and can't adjust them to a good point without making others miss their stops. This may be part of the problem.
 

Offline zinda

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 03:06:10 AM »
Well I went through the reel wipers again and made an adjustment to the index plate also, I had a Pear that would stop way below the pay line.The problem was that the reel tape has a Bell & a Pear symbol next to each other. This makes for a really thin piece of metal between those 2 slots. I actually had to weld them both solid and move them up higher and change the angle of the slots to get them both to show on the pay line and still have enough metal between them to keep that thin metal strip between the two slots from bending. The hold feature will cause a single reel spin to spin super fast while holding the other 2, I could foresee problems with that spot on the indexer if that reel hits at that point a few times when it's the only reel spinning during a hold. Just something I had not considered till I played it for a while.
 I rewired the pay outs again to include the 10 on all higher pay outs and made some wiper arm adjustments, I noticed that these reel wiper blades were poorly adjusted and were pressing super hard onto the boards. I noticed this right away when I went through it trying to get it working. The reels would barely spin. The boards are now bent and twisted due to the pressure. The contacts were all tarnished and the wiper fingers were making poor contacts at the higher pay out symbols due to the bent boards. What I had to do was make some braces similar to those that run across the back edge but for the front edges.
 I was able to place a rubber spacer behind the Hold & Draw Relay Switch stack to push the 3rd reel wiper board in a straightened position. Then used the spacer braces to push the other 2 boards into a much straighter position. This made the wiper fingers lay onto the boards with even pressure as they move across the pins and made the reels spin much faster than they were prior to this.
Also it solved my pay out problems! All connected pay outs are now working! :nerd:
now it's on to see if I can get the Sir Prize unit to control the JP payouts as a multiplier and I'll be set, I'm thinking I'll use the Regular JP relay to control ther 100 coin JP and the Sr Prize relay to work the 200 coin JP or visa versa, 1 has a single pole double throw and a NC switch while the other has all NO switches. I can add or change them if need be.
 I also have an updated Reel wiper board wiring drawing showing the additional wires to make the single blade wiper arm on the hopper PO disc work for PO's higher than 10 coins.

Offline zinda

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2014, 08:17:00 PM »
Now I've been able to go through the entire machine I added my any M on the pay line possible payout mod and all features work, hol and draw, all payouts work pays correctly even with the existing 6 pence plate. I had to make a coin guard for the front of the hopper and bought a new knife.  I do have 1 issue with it now, I am offered a hold after 1 pull Wins. I didn't notice it at first because I just never was getting any wins on the fist try. I can't seem to figure out how the payouts will stop that from allowing the hold? I thought it was controlled by the switch on the hopper index wheel, when it pays out it breaks the contact on the middle switch located by the zero stop and the reset relay return switch that are controlled by the pin on the plastic index wheel. Even with it adjusted correctly to open right away, since I first thought it was a small payout problem, due to only seeing the problem with cherries paying out on the first pull.
   But now I've figured out it's allowing it on any first pull win. Am I not using the correct switch to stop the hold? The payout indexer will reset during the next pull, correct? this should not allow the hold to be lit up until after the pull following a win. The switch will remian open when the winning game ends causing no hold light to be lit and no hot buttons until after the next game has been played. During that next spin the payout index wheel resets and the switch closes, then the hold light will be lit and everything is hot again. Unless my wire is not running only through that switch. I ripped out tons of extra wires and rerouted so many others, I found doubles of wires going to the same places and some doubles going no where at all. I did figure out however due to the wires that were still laying in the machine that it was originally a dual denomination machine either a 6P or 1p + tokens.
  All the wires are there for the scavenger and other token related parts but there is no sign of wiring to a coin stepper unit that would signify 2 plays per coin. Unless the Sir Prize unit itself does this. I have figured out a way to make the SIR PRIZE Unit work as a 2 plays per coin machine but see no reason to do so now that I've evened up the payouts with my added M payouts.
  I started with 3 zones that each reel will make hot and had 1 payout contact and 3 pickup contacts so there was almost always a payout when an M landed on the payline. I found that was interfering with the chance to hold when M's were on the payout line ready for the next pull while holding. So I mixed up the hot zones semi randomly, rather than having each reel having a zone of 1/3 of the pins hot in a row I went to every 3rd pin would be controlled by each reel. then reduced the pick ups to just 1. This seems to  be a perfect balance with the payouts and the holds. It has become a very fun machine with a very fair payout %. Sometimes a little too generous but if I keep playing I will find myself with an empty tray after a few hours.
  I also touched up my symbols on the reel tape after running through tons of ideas to improve the glowing without ruining the look. I almost reprinted them entirely and may still but for now I used some 20 year old glow in the dark paint and some 20 year old glow in the dark glue from Elmers. I had 6 colors of glue and the paint was just yellowish green. So I painted a thin base coat over each symbol entirely and painted the edges of the reels to add a little bit more light to the area also. Then I thinned out the glue to make into a paint like semi clear liquid form that  could easily apply with an artist paint brush, I had Orange Yellow Blue and Red glues so I just mixed them to make the other colors Purple & Green, when the regular lights are on you can't even see the glow in the dark paints the reels look absolutely as they did normally, once the blacklight hits them they glow perfectly.


Offline Op-Bell

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2014, 12:27:15 AM »
The way the hold worked originally is the hold relay was dropped out by a contact breaking as the handle was pulled. This contact closed again as soon as the mech started to run. Then as the mech cycled, one of the contacts on the left closed briefly and pulled the hold relay in through break contacts on each of the hold solenoids - if any reel was held the pulse didn't get through. This happened about the time the center reel stopped. If the relay pulled in, it held through one of its own contacts. Finally, if there was a winner, a contact on the win relay opened and dropped the hold relay out again. Since all these games were operated for a time after predictable hold became illegal, they've all been screwed with, generally by adding a cam timer that randomly operates the hold relay. Sometimes, hold was allowed after win, so the win relay contact has been removed from circuit.

So in summary, win relay coil -> own NO contact -> handle NC contact -> win relay NC contact -> ground
And in parallel, win relay coil -> 1 hold NC -> 2 hold NC -> 3 hold NC -> mech momentary contact -> ground

The two plays per coin device is a very small relay-looking device on the left side of the mech, low down and well back. Associated with it is a toothed ratchet wheel that's mechanically operated by an L shaped piece sticking out of the action bar that works the contacts on that side.

Offline zinda

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2014, 09:12:36 AM »
The way the hold worked originally is the hold relay was dropped out by a contact breaking as the handle was pulled. This contact closed again as soon as the mech started to run. Then as the mech cycled, one of the contacts on the left closed briefly and pulled the hold relay in through break contacts on each of the hold solenoids - if any reel was held the pulse didn't get through. This happened about the time the center reel stopped. If the relay pulled in, it held through one of its own contacts. Finally, if there was a winner, a contact on the win relay opened and dropped the hold relay out again. Since all these games were operated for a time after predictable hold became illegal, they've all been screwed with, generally by adding a cam timer that randomly operates the hold relay. Sometimes, hold was allowed after win, so the win relay contact has been removed from circuit.

So in summary, win relay coil -> own NO contact -> handle NC contact -> win relay NC contact -> ground
And in parallel, win relay coil -> 1 hold NC -> 2 hold NC -> 3 hold NC -> mech momentary contact -> ground

The two plays per coin device is a very small relay-looking device on the left side of the mech, low down and well back. Associated with it is a toothed ratchet wheel that's mechanically operated by an L shaped piece sticking out of the action bar that works the contacts on that side.

 I saw a picture of that little motor with the indentation and the roller switch and figured that was the hold randomizer. From a service manual I have it doesn't show that of course since that was added after the fact. But It does show the token wiring for 2 plays going to a multi play stepper unit that's drawn as a simple 2 switch circuit assembly which made little sense in the drawing. I have it figured to need at least something very similar to the Sir Prize unit stepper to make it work. I may be over thinking it also.


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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2014, 09:32:40 AM »
I just realized after I read the wire and switch layout you posted I'm getting a very similar action with my coin lockout, I hear it clicking basically in that order but it's not blocking when it should be, it will accept a coin during pay outs, It will stop the ay out when the coin is registered. My coin light will light up as soon as I pull the handle also. Goes out when it's coined but as soon as the prawl swtich breaks it's lit back up until it's coined again. The coin lockout will not change when i remove the hopper but will when I remove the reels. I also have to run Black/Red and Brown/Yellow wires to the coin switch NO lead to get the hold and draw to work. I may have a loop that is letting power run back through the Brown/Yellow wire causing these strange things, but where alse can I run the Black/Red and still have  separate working circuit. The wires were originally running to that switch area, it had no switch when I got it. Still have all the other token wires running to that area also. HMMM. :Scratch-Head:

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2014, 10:45:58 PM »
The way the hold worked originally is the hold relay was dropped out by a contact breaking as the handle was pulled. This contact closed again as soon as the mech started to run. Then as the mech cycled, one of the contacts on the left closed briefly and pulled the hold relay in through break contacts on each of the hold solenoids - if any reel was held the pulse didn't get through. This happened about the time the center reel stopped. If the relay pulled in, it held through one of its own contacts. Finally, if there was a winner, a contact on the win relay opened and dropped the hold relay out again. Since all these games were operated for a time after predictable hold became illegal, they've all been screwed with, generally by adding a cam timer that randomly operates the hold relay. Sometimes, hold was allowed after win, so the win relay contact has been removed from circuit.

So in summary, win relay coil -> own NO contact -> handle NC contact -> win relay NC contact -> ground
And in parallel, win relay coil -> 1 hold NC -> 2 hold NC -> 3 hold NC -> mech momentary contact -> ground

The two plays per coin device is a very small relay-looking device on the left side of the mech, low down and well back. Associated with it is a toothed ratchet wheel that's mechanically operated by an L shaped piece sticking out of the action bar that works the contacts on that side.

I did some looking into the hold problem and did find out a few things, the hold and draw is controlled through the switch on the hopper pay out index wheel switches as I had originally thought. Since that switch was working and the wires were good all they way down and back. The signal runs from the Yellow/Brown from the Coin relay switch assembly then down to the Pay out index switch which is NC at zero, once the first coin is indexed it opens that switch while the other two switches that are for the reset solenoid and the zero stop will close at fist index of a coin.
  That meant I had to look into any possible wires that may be connected to an incorrect post or was added onto anything, also looked for missing leaf insulators or leafs touching the frame. Saw a close one but it wasn't touching. I then looked at the Hold & Draw relay switches. I went ahead and bent them all up to help them lift the bakelite part that controls the contacts. Also bent the top switch up more since it's not used (NC) part of a SPDT. I tried it and it still allowed a hold but when I slapped the hold on #2 switch the light went out before I could hit the #3 hold! I was onto something! :nerd:
   I replaced the spring on that relay and it was fixed! For some reason the bakelite was not lifting up as easily as it should be, but when I would slide the reel assembly out it would wiggle it enough that it would return back to the top position so it was not seen.
 The spring was a good new spring but it was just a little bit too long to pull it up away from the contacts every time. That's why I didn't see it happen on every turn! I'm calling this one done, I may work on making it a 2 play per coin game now and remove my mod. Thanks OP, I was just about to involve my Father on this one, he has never seen the inside of a slot machine before but he's a retired Ma Bell Telephone PBX Repairman back in the 60's and 70's then went to ATT when they split. I always wondered what that waxy string was used for, my first glimpse in a slot machine and it all made sense. I figured These would be a breeze for him to figure out but he's not in the best health right now after battling cancer for the 4th time in 6 years. The cancer wasn't the real butt kicker for him, he seems to be able to fight it off without any problem but he had a bout with Valley Fever that almost killed him. He battled it for a year and never quite recovered completely and now the cancer is back. He just doesn't have the energy to focus on much right now, I'm sure if he was able he would have been a great help.
  I now think through these last 3 machines I've worked on the progression of the amount of repairs needed and the complexity of each one has been perfect for me to grasp the working knowledge needed to understand each part of the electromechanical machines. Not having a schematic did not help but at the same time has forced to to draw my own circuits to be able to make sense of how to go about repairing things that have been so screwed up by others that a schematic would not have been much help. From the reels, tape, reel positions, index plates, changing slots to match reel tape, rewiring the wipers, rewiring the entire machine from coin drop to payout through the hopper and understanding most of what can go wrong and why, then making sure that each solder joint is going to hold up through tearing the machine apart 100 times before finally seeing it work correctly. I have drawings of the beau plugs redrawn 10 times to figure out which wires were changing colors as they made connections from reel to cabinet to lower beau plug to hopper then back again. It would have been easier if I would have stripped it out completely rather than working with multiple wire changes in every part of the machines long wire looms. Never know how bad it is until after you're too far into it to start over. Just glad to see it all Pay Off and know it's finally done. Now I need to sell 2 and start another more complex project. :wave:

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 07:50:26 PM »
Hey kids, good project here.  Please give me a bit of time to read all this.
Can you record the reel strips and payout structure for us?
If OpBell's on it it'll get fixed, and I look forward to time to work on the probs...
The real picture of the Face on Mars.

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2014, 04:51:32 AM »
those games and big prize were used in nj arcades   under nj law they were made to payout over 100 %, coin wise not value wise it was like put in 1  25 cent token and winning 2 that weren't worth 2 cents each . player would spend a 100 bucks to get a 10 buck prize

Offline Op-Bell

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 01:41:24 AM »
I always wondered what that waxy string was used for
I love the waxy string, it's so much neater than those ugly plastic cable ties. I was taught how to do it by a wireman in my first job. There's a technique to it, and a mil spec - "Workmanship and Design Practices for Electronic Equipment" by the Bureau of Naval Weapons, 1962 - tells you the proper way to make the running stitches and how to start and finish at the ends.. The problem is I have no idea where to get the stuff these days. Perhaps it's still used used in shoemaking.

Let me know if I can help you any more.

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 12:06:29 PM »
Wonder if thick dental floss would work?  Maybe even could wax it with a candle...?
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Offline Op-Bell

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 12:24:50 PM »
Wonder if thick dental floss would work?  Maybe even could wax it with a candle...?
Floss is too thin, it would cut into the insulation. So does thin cotton string. The proper stuff was like a narrow flat braid, and I think originally it was a shoe maker's product. Even that didn't do so well with PVC insulated wire, it slips on the smooth insulation and is difficult to get neat. It was really a product for the cotton-covered wire era.

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2014, 02:06:05 AM »
I always wondered what that waxy string was used for
I love the waxy string, it's so much neater than those ugly plastic cable ties. I was taught how to do it by a wireman in my first job. There's a technique to it, and a mil spec - "Workmanship and Design Practices for Electronic Equipment" by the Bureau of Naval Weapons, 1962 - tells you the proper way to make the running stitches and how to start and finish at the ends.. The problem is I have no idea where to get the stuff these days. Perhaps it's still used used in shoemaking.

Let me know if I can help you any more.

I'll ask my Dad if he has any more spools of it, I know i have one here someplace, it's got to be over 30 years old. He may have used his up I see him tying things all the time. I remember spool upon spool of that string as a kid and Terri Towels as well, oh and that waterless hand cleaner gel! I still use the old Bell System Wire cutters, needle-nose pliers and scredrivers form when they split into AT&T and The Bell System must have changed out his tools for the new ones. Eventually he went to AT&T.

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Re: Machine Mod Adding my own Feature
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2015, 12:05:20 PM »
Hello,

In one of your post is a photo of a Reel / Wiper wiring diagram.
My question is, are those diagrams available for other bally machines?
Have a Bally Money Gusher 809-zh that has the wrong reels in it.
I'm trying to decide whether to rewire for the reels that are in the machine.

Or change the reel strips which would be easier if the payouts are equal, but still might have to do a little wiring.

Thanks for any info regarding wiring diagrams and where they can be purchased.

Dave   

 

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