955 Low Boy Major Short

[capt7310]

OK I got my Bally's 955 back from a friend who was trying to help me find this short and NG. So I'm back to the group. I've taken several standing eight counts and I'm one punch away from a knockout. Jon has been most gracious to answer my PM's and phone calls but I know he's still hurting from his fall and other than taking the road trip to his house 12 hrs away I figured I'd give him a break ( no pun intended).
I've check and recheck and can't find out why I keep blowing the 8 amp fuse leading to the orange wires. I cut the 3 orange wires from the fuse and the 2 orange wires with the red tracer which engage the coin mech when their connected the fuse blows and disconnected and it's just the orange wire fuse is OK.
I've been trying to trace all the wires and can't find anything. I've un done the total wire harness to see if there is a broken or chaffed wire and can't find anything. I've put a meter on all the relays and solenoids and get readings from 8-48. If the hopper is in without the reels nothing happens and visa versa with the reels but when both are in the fuse pops. So just reaching out again to the group to give it one more shot then it's off to JON'S house.

[capt7310]

Sorry wrong pic of the machine, that's another story.

First picture deleted. - mod

[GOS]

orange wires are your 50v - did you check ALL your coils and sealed relay to see if any are shorted or burnt?  i found that the insulator on some of switches (A B coin relay etc) wears away and then with the metal exposed that can cause a short.  Another way to isolate a short in the reel or hopper using a multimeter on continuity check - with unit of of machine - attach one lead of the meter to the frame of the reel mech and with the other lead check each pin on the beuaplugs - if you get a hit then you have found the wire that is shorted.

[capt7310]

When you say a hit.... the meter will show or do what. I am using a Fluke meter.

[GOS]

continuity - should show zero

[capt7310]

OK GOS thanks I'll try some more...should I do the same with the hopper also..

[capt7310]

Need some more clarity, when I put one lead of the meter into the orange wire coming off the fuse and touch anywhere on the metal parts of the machine the meter sounds. Does that make any sense. When I check the continuity off the beau plugs there was no readings and that's on the reels and hopper. 

[Amechanic]

Have you checked the coil located behind the coin mech? Also have you removed the transformer and checks behind it? I think if your meters beeping when attached to the orange wire and touching the cabinet metal, that's indicating the short..

[capt7310]

Yes I took the orange wires off the coil behind the coin mech and it still popped the fuse. The first transformer I had with the machine went up in smoke because the previous owner knew of a short and was trying to find it and over fused it with a 20 amp and before I realized it the transformer was smoking. Jon shipped me out another one and now it's back to trial and error..

[Amechanic]

Have you had the beau plugs for the reels out to check for the short there? I've seen those pins in the female plugs pushed out over half way and the wires jammed up against the back cabinets wall. I've so found broken off wires just laying back there too. Id take the reel shelf loose or off myself and check those plugs closely since you say your meters beeping when you touch the Orange fuse wire and the cabinet.

[capt7310]

Amechanic, did that not once but several times check the beau plugs on both male and female side. I'm going to strip down the metal plate that holds the reels and remove the beau plugs again and check the fuse holder. I was just checking it again and with the one end of the meter wire into the orange wire that's coming out fuse anywhere I touch the machines metal the meter sounds and that's without the reels and hopper in. I can touch the outside of the cabinet door and the meter will sound. So as Jon has also said that orange wire is shorting somewhere and I'm not great with the electrical end but I'm getting there, and I do believe that the orange wire is shorting somewhere.


When I power it up the coin mech engages some of the lights on the outside light up the fluorescent light above the reels dosen't light (and I did replace it ) up, the belly glass lights up, but as soon as I put the reels and hopper in together the fuse blows. 

[DavidLee]

Hello Capt,


Seems like the reels or hopper is completing a circuit to ground causing a short circuit.
As you stated everything is fine until the units are reinstalled.
With the units out of the machine eliminate them by connecting one meter lead to a solid orange wire on that particular unit. Then touch the other lead [size=78%]to any metal part of that unit. There should be NO reading or beep. A reading or beep indicates the Orange wire is in contact with the unit frame.[/size]
[size=78%] But it wouldn't necessarily be the orange wire. The orange could be feeding another wire that is making contact to the unit frame. When these units are reinstalled they complete circuits to the rest of the machine i.e. the door, handle release etc.[/size]
So testing them for a short will help narrow the search. If they pass, I would reinsert them one at a time and test for shorting. Also try alternating the units when you put them back in testing each time one is reinserted.


Really get a kick when the computer uses its artificial intelligence and rotates the photos 90°.
Going to crop the photo and upload to see if that will make a difference.
Apparently the computer likes the new size photo.

[capt7310]

Hi Dave, and yes when I put the hopper or reels back in and alternate them nothing happens the fuse does not pop it only happens when both are in together.


 I disconnected the 2 orange wires with the red tracer coming from the fuse holder to the molex connector that activate the coin mech and reinstalled the units and the fuse did not pop.


 I tried to trace those wires and then realized that the solid orange was supplying the power to those wires because out of the fuse holder there are 3 wires a solid orange and the 2 orange with the red tracer. So I'm back to the orange wire.


Now if they both pass and I reinstall each unit I would now test the orange wire and touch the the body and see if it beeps and if it does you're saying that would possibly indicate the short in either one of the units. I have gone over each unit and they are very clean and and really show no wear, which indicates to me that this short has been around for awhile and the guy who owned the machine just put the machine away for years until I got it.
I have undone the wire harness pretty much and everything looks fine, again my electrical skills are not great but getting better and I feel that the problem exists somewhere off that fuse holder and yes it would because that's where the power is coming from.
I'll keep trying

[DavidLee]

Hello Paul,

Okay checked out your photos, the machine is in great shape. Must of been sitting as no one could find the short like you said.
Got a machine the same way, been sitting for years due to a short. Luckily I found it fairly soon by moving the wire harness at the door jam.
Did the hopper and reel mechanisms check out okay?
I see you have unwrapped all the wires WOW. I'm sure you have inspected them for exposed copper. There is a higher probability of a short where wire is in close or rubbing the metal cabinet. 
Might want to check all the coils for the paper and rubber insulators between the coil and its mounting bracket.
Any metal debris, solder, washers, wire strands etc that might of fallen into the contacts or Beau plug.
If the machine has plastic cube relays, try pulling them to see what happens. If the machine stays up and running then replace one at a time.
This may narrow the search.
Keep us posted on the situation.

I posted a few photos of the 1088 that had a short at the door jam. Same thing really clean.
Instead of trying to tape up the exposed wire I grafted a slice of insulation over the copper with crazy glue then wrapped them up.
       

[capt7310]

Hi Dave I checked all the relays and solenoids and don't get any reading less than 6.9. Again everything looks new meaning the hopper and reels all the wires look clean this is where I'm at now besides a headache checking everything.
I can't see anything and as you see in the pics I've ripped almost everything apart.

[DavidLee]

Paul,

You really have it opened up.

Just for kicks remove the terminal block on the back of the machine.
Someone might have put a longer screw all the way through. It seem unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt to look.
With the machine dismantled as far as you have it everything is pretty well isolated.
Machine UNPLUGGED Starting at the transformer hook one side of the meter to the orange wire lug then touch the other side to the bare metal case. Should be no reading, do the same with the yellow. Then check all orange and yellow wires at there solder / terminate points in that part of the machine. Then work your way up.
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I would probably do this with every wire in the machine, since everything is so accessible at this point.
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In theory there should be no continuity to the case.
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Don't need to install hopper or reels, just clip a wire from the unit to the case. Then test all wires for no continuity to the case.

Hopefully this will narrow down the location.

See cheap tester, it makes it a little easier to check continuity.
 
 

[capt7310]

Hi Dave yeah I took the terminal block off thinking the same or a washer in hopes of a miracle but there was nothing. The only thing that was on that terminal block when I got it was a black jumper wire from the  yellow wire with the red tracer to the thin yellow and that didn't do anything. I will sometime today follow your direction and give it a another going over.
I have a close bud of mine who's pretty good with troubleshooting and he's going to give me some of his time today and take a look. If that fails then I'm going to send it off to Jon for an early Christmas gift and he can have it I know he likes the Low Boys.

[mark the spark]

if you put your meter on orange then to the frame work what is the value of your reading?

[DavidLee]

Hello Paul,

Hang in there, check all the wires where they terminate.
Just hook one side of the meter to the case and touch the other lead to Beau plug pins, Molex plugs pins, coils, contacts and switches etc.


 
 

[capt7310]

From the transformer the orange to the case beeps and also with the yellow beeps my readings go from 2.6,,4.3 then the meter shows OL. Thanks again for all the help I'll start again tommorow and keep all posted.