955 Low Boy Major Short

[OldReno]

Nothing should beep to case. Circuits are isolated from case and ground.
Try unplugging your door & test again.

[capt7310]

Unplugged everything from the door and still beeping

[capt7310]

Had a friend of mine who's pretty knowledgably with wiring and relays and his was here for almost 2 hrs and could not isolate the orange wire to find the short. He had to give it a break and we'll try again later. 

[mark the spark]

not sure where you got to but you`ve stripped it down this much I would start again at the beginning
test orange wire from transformer to fuse first, then test each wire from the 50v through
if you have disconnected door removed reels and hopper then the fault must lay in the cabinet
you might have to disconnect the odd wire  sometimes to get a true reading
also if your meter is beeping indicating continuity check again the ohm reading
also recognise what ohms you have 1 ohm or less dead short  measure the resisitance of your coils sometimes you  might be reading through 1

[DavidLee]

Speaking of ohms, check the payout relay coil resistors for resistance. Especially the 470 ohm ceramic resistor and the 8200 ohm resistor. These resistor are the only thing between the yellow and orange wire.
If one is at fault, the current could possibly exceed the fuse limit. Explaining why the transformer was cooking and the machines was over fused.
Thought this doesn't explain why you have a reading at the transformer if the hopper is out of the machine.

Paul, wish I lived closer, I would really enjoy digging into this situation!

Dave

[capt7310]

Yes I wish I was close to you guys also. So here is where I'm at (see pics). I have traced and retraced I've metered the orange wires god only knows how many times and the yellow, I've disconnected and reconnected unsoldered and resoldered and everything I touch beeps. If I could just find someone with a 955 and switch the hoppers and reels and see if anything happens I least I know it's not them which (I think it's not)


I'm going to clean up the wires today with some zip ties because I found nothing in them and as I've said everything looks clean and new so I do believe this was an issue many years back and the previous owner just let it sit.
I have tried to isolate any section to narrow it down but nothing. 2 guys that do wiring and 1 that does work on theses machines tapped out on me.


It's snowing like crazy here now so I'll put in more time. Unless I make a road trip I might have to give it a break and come back later. Again thanks all for the help.

[mark the spark]

I am going to change my mind having re read your posts there cant be a short to the cabinet as when you have the reels and hopper out the fuse dose not blow the fuse only pops when you have both reel and hopper in together
if it was me I would with the power off install the reels only and test from the orange wire to cabinet and to the reels but you want to be looking at the ohms reading
remove reels install hopper do the same again
and lastly install reels and hopper together test to metal work again note readings
do they change at all?

[DavidLee]

Take a break from it for awhile and tie wrap the looms, good idea.
With the reels and hopper out, the machine is pretty much isolated wiring wise.
It's only when there installed many of the circuits are completed.
This is when the fuse does its job.

[cowboygames]

Just a thought, but we used to put higher rated fuses in and turn the unit on just long enough to see what heated up. Most times it helped identify the problem circuit, sometimes at the expense of replacing a couple additional parts, or it would occasionally reveal a motor going bad and drawing to many amps by way of the fuse not blowing but the motor either running at the higher amps or just not working. If you get really frustrated, this might be an option for you

[OldReno]

Yellow 30 wire is common between 50v orange & 6v blue.
6v shorts can affect 50v side.
All v must be isolated from case
Some operators used to screw the 70 wire to case at the lockout coil on door to purposely build in half a short
This was in case someone drilled machine, & would blow fuses.
Look for any soldering or wiring in machine that appears 'new'.

[Amechanic]

Just a thought, but we used to put higher rated fuses in and turn the unit on just long enough to see what heated up. Most times it helped identify the problem circuit, sometimes at the expense of replacing a couple additional parts, or it would occasionally reveal a motor going bad and drawing to many amps by way of the fuse not blowing but the motor either running at the higher amps or just not working. If you get really frustrated, this might be an option for you

The problem with this is that the Bally EM does not have but a hopper motor and the safety timer. When over fused this causes the transformer to heat up and have a melt down. I have been reading and thinking quietly. Have your carefull inspected the relays and blade switches? Some of these have an insulator strip between contacts.. I'm wondering if one of these strips have broken off leaving you with a dead short. It could be possible that someone rebuild a switch, and forgot one or put it back together in a reverse order? Heck it could be a simple as someone reversed wires on a set of contacts? As for trying to swap your reels and hopper with another 955, that might not work either.. I've seen where a hopper or reels won't work in a different machine, because they are wired differently.
Have you taken and mapped out the beau plugs by color and location, then compaired both the male and female plugs are wired the same, color by color? It's possible a plugs wired wrong.. I know how hard it is to replace them. It wouldn't take much to cross a wire? 


Gary

[DavidLee]

I put my meter on a transformer just to compare readings and to double check that there is some resistance.
Yellow to orange 2.1 on the 200 ohm setting and 1.5 on the yellow to blue wire.
So the reading you got across the two wire is to be expected.

Posted a photo of the ceramic resistor on the hopper payout coil. Got a reading around 80.0 while still connected.
The smaller resistor I didn't get any reading. That one is connected to a solid yellow wire and one side of the ceramic resistor.
The other side of the ceramic resistor is connected to the orange wire.
Reason I posted this if the ceramic resistor is faulty there is a possibility enough current is flowing from the yellow to the orange to blow the fuse.
This is an untested theory on my part, but something to check out and eliminate.     
Also like what Gary said about insulators between contacts.     

[capt7310]

I did try and up the amp fuse but as Gary said within less than a minute the transformer was hot and I'd hate to call Jon and ask for another transformer I think he would shot me.


I cleaned up all the wire harness with the tie wraps and I will check again the ceramic res and I'll try to see if I can get to the wires once the reels and hopper are installed a little tough to get behind.
There is what appears to be an aftermarket on/off toggle switch thought that might be the problem because with the machine plugged in and the toggle in the off position I touched the white wire at the post and got zapped I put the meter on it and it was 120v.
I will take some meter readings at different places and post them so everyone can get an idea of what I'm dealing with and maybe  help.


Thanks Paul

[Amechanic]

I had one EM before that someone removed the jackpot reset lock and installed a on/off toggle switch. I was having a problem with getting shocked, so I ended out rewiring the power plug back to stock setup. I would remove it if it were mine.

[mark the spark]

the short is before your payout relay the payout relay is only energised on a win (I think)

[capt7310]

Mark, the payout relay in the hopper. If possible can you give me a pic. I am checking the reel pack and hopper right now.
I'm going to send some pics of my ohm readings. but I'm trying anything to isolate this problem if possible.
Anything to try I'm doing.


Thanks Paul

[capt7310]

Dave just took some reading off the transformer and the orange to the yellow 0.8 and the yellow to blue 0.2 .I took a reading of the hopper to the ceramic res see pic.

[DavidLee]

Paul,


Looks to be okay, same reading I got, but my meter was on a smaller scale and got 80.0 + / - a few.
Note to get a true reading one side of the resister should be disconnected, but I think you're good.
Send some close ups of the hopper and reel switches. Maybe someone will spot something.

[capt7310]

Dave heres what I got very frustrating. I took a bunch more pics and a pic of the switch that Amechanic  said to remove which I will and hook up to the fuse block. Missed the add on switch

[mark the spark]

ok capt been out and measured across my transformer on 929
yellow to orange 0.8ohms yellow to blue is open circuit (meg ohms) yours is 0.2 (short circuit)
as reno pointed out yellow is common for both circuits maybe hes right and the fault is  on the 6v circuit