Short payout on Jackpot, other payouts are pretty close

[Steve Broad]

Hi


Gradually getting my head around this new toy (for me).


Wipers are now lined up with contacts so all wining combinations pay out. Adjusted spring tension on the payout mechanism so payouts are with a 1p or so, fine for now.


However, when I lined up the reels manually to check the Jackpot (3 melons = 50p :-)) if only paid out 23p!


Any ideas?


Machine seems to be a bit of a mish mash, somewhere between 742 and 820 (see attached photos)


Thanks
Steve

[DavidLee]

The payout step up unit might need cleaning.
On the unit there’s a 50 payout strip, check it out for any abnormalities.
Manually step the unit and check continuity on the 50 pay strip.
The rotating shaft should move freely in both directions.
 It should spring back quickly by depressing the reset coil plunger.

[wolftalk]

this machine is a refurb made by Leisure Games.  It doesn't have a standard bally payout counter under the hopper, but it has a similar stepper unit used for payouts and probably making change,


there's no 50 trace on the unit.  However, there is an open-at pin switch sticking out over the white plastic ratchet that looks like it will open at around 50 steps, so I'd assume that switch is handling he jackpot pay.


make sure the switch is closed when the unit is reset and stays closed until the 50th step of the unit.  Check that the switch stack is above the surface of the ratchet so the blades can only touch the pins sticking out of the ratchet.


if you want to verify, jumper the switch closed and be prepared to turn off the machine after it oays at least 50 coins.  If you can reach the switches, set up a watermelon win and if pay stops short of 50, push/wiggle the switch to make sure it's closed and see if pay continues.

[wolftalk]

in the pic below, the open-at-50 switch (purple arrow) should be closed until the peg (red arrow) opens it at step 50.

[Steve Broad]

in the pic below, the open-at-50 switch (purple arrow) should be closed until the peg (red arrow) opens it at step 50.

The switches appear to be closing and opening as they should. All payouts are now spot on except for the 50p jackpot which varies between 4 and the mid 20s.

[DavidLee]

If you have one of these in your machine ( see photo ) it might need attention.
The higher payouts are somewhat controlled by the contacts circled in red.

[Steve Broad]

If you have one of these in your machine ( see photo ) it might need attention.
The higher payouts are somewhat controlled by the contacts circled in red.

Thanks for your response. However, my one looks like this:

[DavidLee]

Locate the 50 payout solder lug and attach one lead from a test meter or test light.
Apply the other lead to the end of the 50 contact strip, manually rotate or step up the unit.
Should be continuity all the way.


Another possibility could be the pivot roller contacts.
For some odd reason they could be sending 2 or 3 signals for every one coin out.
Check this by setting up a 50 payout on the machine and let it complete the payout.


 Then observe the payout step up unit.
Note where the 50 payout contacts have stopped.
If they have run off the strips and only 20 coins came out.
Then it’s possible the unit is getting 2 to 3 signals per coin out.

[Steve Broad]

Locate the 50 payout solder lug and attach one lead from a test meter or test light.
Apply the other lead to the end of the 50 contact strip, manually rotate or step up the unit.
Should be continuity all the way.


Another possibility could be the pivot roller contacts.
For some odd reason they could be sending 2 or 3 signals for every one coin out.
Check this by setting up a 50 payout on the machine and let it complete the payout.


 Then observe the payout step up unit.
Note where the 50 payout contacts have stopped.
If they have run off the strips and only 20 coins came out.
Then it’s possible the unit is getting 2 to 3 signals per coin out.

There isn't a 50 payout strip. Highest is 25.

[DavidLee]

Possibly there’s a multiplier that doubles the payout.
The machine lets 2 coins out and only counts it a one.
50 jackpot only.

[Steve Broad]

Possibly there’s a multiplier that doubles the payout.
The machine lets 2 coins out and only counts it a one.
50 jackpot only.

There has to be something like that, but I have no idea where to start looking. It has paid out over 25p occasionally so there is something there.

[jay]

Its an older machine..... the era that they came from they always held back 15% as part of the casino skim....you complain.... you end up in the middle of the desert..... 

[Steve Broad]

Its an older machine..... the era that they came from they always held back 15% as part of the casino skim....you complain.... you end up in the middle of the desert..... 

:-) But sometimes is only pays out 4p which is a 92% skim !

[DavidLee]

Machine should payout according to the pay schedule.



Best to look deeper into the 50 pay circuit and mechanism.

[Steve Broad]

Machine should payout according to the pay schedule.



Best to look deeper into the 50 pay circuit and mechanism.

That's what I am trying to do :-) However, this being my first machine, it is a very steep learning curve.

[DavidLee]

Okay, yes it takes time to figure out everything works.
I’ve never seen a Bally machine modified to this extent.
Took a closer look at the payout step up unit.
It appears that one of the contact blades is missing.
This maybe the problem as it appears to be for the highest payout.

[Steve Broad]

Okay, yes it takes time to figure out everything works.
I’ve never seen a Bally machine modified to this extent.
Took a closer look at the payout step up unit.
It appears that one of the contact blades is missing.
This maybe the problem as it appears to be for the highest payout.

It is missing but the track isn't connected (no wire soldered on to the start).

[DavidLee]

Okay, in the photo it appeared to be right over the longest payout strip.
Is there a number on the soldering lug area?
Or which one is the 25 pay strip?


Would like to see this unit after a 50 payout.


You can setup a payout by stopping the clock fan, aligning the reels for desired payout then release the clock fan
while holding the reels in place.


If all the blades are linked together this might still play a part in the payout.


It’s hard to really tell without being able to see physical the machine.

[wolftalk]

Okay, in the photo it appeared to be right over the longest payout strip.
Is there a number on the soldering lug area?
Or which one is the 25 pay strip?

Would like to see this unit after a 50 payout.

look at the picture in post 2.  You can clearly see the numbers on the traces.


dunno if the game has ever paid 50 correctly.  However, the pin switch on the side of the ratchet opens at 50 steps of the payout counter, and if the switch is misadjusted open a 50 pay doesn't do anything.


the logical conclusion is 50 pay is handled by the switch, the payout traces/wipers are not needed/used, and the problem is flaky circuit path thru the reel wiper/contact plates and the pin switch.  When a 50 pay stops short, wiggling the connections, reel mech and reel wipers may wake up the payout and you've found the problem.


since this is a Leisure Games machine made using some bally reel mech parts, almost all guesses on how the game works need to be verified. 


it may be necessary to start at the reel wipers for a jackpot pay and follow the wiring to see where it goes.  Likewise start at the pin switch and see where those wires go - the yellow/green one is more likely to be interesting since the grey/yellow is traditionally a bally color that controlled powering the payout relay which turned on the hopper.


bally usually had the wires going to the payout coming off reel 1 and the payout feed wires attached to first or second row of rivets from the top, but all bets off here.


below is a trivial circuit for how a 50 pay could be wired.  If LG followed bally conventions, it'd start at a grey wire on reel 3, go thru reels, come off reel 1 on the yellow/green wire and the yellow/green goes directly to the pin switch, which then ties into the main feed wire to the payout relay (or equiv - whatever turns on the hopper).  The pin switch does exactly what a wiper/trace on the payout counter does ... disconnects the circuit when that many coins have been ejected.


the change machine function may add more relays/switches in the circuits tho, so the circuit is probably more complicated than the trivial example.

[DavidLee]

As Wolftalk mentioned, the payouts are marked on the board.


In the photo the 25 receiver strip appears to be where the contact blade is missing.