Bally 804H slot does not pay out

[PatrickLewis.net]

I have the machine working to the point of taking coins, registering the coin, spinning the wheels.  The machine will not payout, but seems to give extra free spins.

The bell does not sound and hopper does not spin.  I confirmed the payout relay does work by jumping the relay from a hot wire.  I have made a color version of the wiring.  I can find where most of the items are in the schematic, but where are the wheel mechs?  I see an A, B, C, and D, but there are only 3 reels.

It must be something between the Grey/yellow wire and the yellow wire, correct?

[wolftalk]

the A-D reel mech switches are on the left side of the reel mech.

the reels themselves are the three now very colorful boxes on the right of the schematic :-)

you want a closed circuit path from grey wire 90 through that maze then thru the payout counter disc on the bottom right to the grey-yellow wire 93 you mentioned.

usual problems for no payouts for any win when the payout relay is working are:
1] payout counter not reset (wipers at the bottom/6:00 position)
2] cruddy payout counter disc
3] badly misaligned reel wipers and/or really cruddy reel wiper contact plates

the game isn't supposed to give free spins, so it's likely you have some modifications in there if the number of spins is proportional to the payouts and it stops giving free spins after X number of pulls.

if you have high resolutions pics of the game that are too large to post here, please email to slotpics@cdyn.com - especially the hopper/payout disc (wiper and ratchet side).

what's supposed to happen is a win creates a closed path from grey wire 90 thru the reel wipers to the correct payout trace on the payout counter disc.  The payout counter disc wipers connect the trace to the payout relay via the grey-yellow (93) wire you mentioned, and as coin are ejected the payout counter wipers step/rotate until they step off the end of the active trace, at which time the payout relay loses power and the pay is ended.

[PatrickLewis.net]

Here are 5 pics of the side of the reels.  There is a loose wire (brown with yellow stripe).

I noticed that the free replay does not seem to match with a payout.  I had a cherry and two other items.  This should have paid 2, but did nothing.  no free spin either.

[wolftalk]

might need to back up a step ... the payout disc in your pic doesn't match the documentation for an 804H, and I don't think the writing on the reel wiper boards do either (tho the wiper position for a cherry win would typically be where shown).

serial/model number plates were often swapped around to make the games technically legal to sell ... there had to be a paper trail in places like nevada, so refurbishers moved plates around or rebuilt games from parts into whatever cabinet was sized correctly.

got a picture of the entire front of the machine and also look for codes/numbers stamped into the slotted reel index discs?

I don't see a brown/yellow (63 or 63-x) wire on an 804H schematic that would have any business over by the reel mech switches.

in any case, bally tended to be consistent with wire coloring across many models, so if you stick an ohmeter probe on the red/yellow (13) wire on the 2 trace on the payout disc and put the other probe on the grey wire (90) on the reel 1 wiper board, you should see almost zero ohms when you have a cherry on reel 1.  Probably.

payout won't work if the handle release relay is tripped.  The handle needs to be locked for wire 90 to connect back thru a couple reel mech switches and maybe the coin switch to wire 30.

if you want to try a jumper wire, you can connect wire 90 to yellow wire 30 on the coin switch and see if the game pays a cherry, and if that doesn't work connect the 13 wire on the payout disc to wire 30 and verify the payout relay powers.

[PatrickLewis.net]

Here is a picture of the front of the cabinet.

The stamping on the reels:
1  684/320
2  684/321
3  684/322

I will test the jumper.

Thanks.

[PatrickLewis.net]

The Jumper from grey 90 to yellow 30 makes it pay out.

Fantastic.

Thanks.

[wolftalk]

the index discs were most commonly used on a model 1090-1, which was a 25 cent game with left-right and right-left pays.

your cabinet style is 804/809/831, which were made 8 years or so previous to the 1090 games.

you've got a refurbisher special ... a mashup of pieces to make an older game into a more "modern" game.  Note the 1090 was a wide reel game, tho, so you don't have the entire reel mech from one of those, you just have the index discs.

the good news is the writing on your reel 1 wiper board matches the wiper positioning for a 1090-1, so I'd guess they swapped the index discs onto the 804H reels, changed the tapes and rewired the reel wiper contact plates.

there's 1090-1 schematic and reel wiper wiring diagram on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ and you've already got the 804H schematic.  Look at either/both to get an idea of the possible switches between wire 90 and wire 30.

since I assume your handle release relay works, you don't have the simple 804H wire path for wire 90 to 30 (or the reel mech plug has a problem for wire 90). 

you may have to trace the wire 90 path from the reel plug to see where it goes ... a handle release relay switch or coin relay switch was common on later games, but eventually the reel mech C and A switches are in the path on almost all machines and are also in the path to the handle release relay, so you should be good for a path from 30 to 60-1 on reel mech C at least.   You gotta get from 60-1 to 90.
 

[PatrickLewis.net]

I found a good jumper on the upper unit to jump from yellow to brown/orange.  This made it payout, mostly.  It still goes into the Free Spin mode at times. 

In the Free spin, it will not payout.

Also, the Odds Relay gets activated and hums loudly.  And the bottom coil on the coin counter seems to be on constantly and heats up quite a bit.  Gets over 190 degrees.

[wolftalk]

the coils with the cylinder plungers going thru them are called solenoids.  They should only power briefly - typically less than a second.  If they stay powered, eventually they will get red hot and burn up.

you can get away with leaving a solenoid powered for a few seconds while you try to see why it's powered, but more than that and you risk the coil wire insulating varnish failing.

from your pics, your best schematic for some of the game functions will be the 809-B.  It has the odds relay configuration it looks like you have.

if you jumpered yellow wire 30 to brown/red wire 61-1 on an odds relay switch, that would cause the odds relay to always power which would always power the odds unit step-up solenoid.  Bad idea :-)

if the handle release relay trips for some reason, the game will not pay out. 

what is supposed to happen after a spin is:

1] coil relay on the left side of the reel mech is reset
2] handle is locked
3] when the coin switch tripwire goes down, the coin relay trips
4] when the coin switch tripwire goes back up, the handle release relay trips and unlocks the handle
5] more coins step up the odds unit to increase the pays for a win

if your handle release relay is tripping before a coin is deposited, you'll need to look at see if it's mechanical or electrical.  The main switch causing an electrical trip is on the coin relay and has blue/white (25-1) and white-red (51-1) wires on the blades.  Make sure that switch is opening well when the coin relay is reset and the blades can't briefly close when the kickoff causes vibration in the reel mech.

note that the coin relay and handle release relay are both "trip" relays.  The switches change state when the coil is powered and stay changed until the relays are mechanically reset as part of the wind-up/kick (handle pull).