Can you help a newbie get it right?

[newbyneedshelp]

 It's always been  dream of mine to buy a Game King, but I live in California and there's that law, slot machines have to be 25 years old to be legal. I always thought GK came into existence around 2000, so the idea of buying one always seemed like a distant fantasy. So I haven't really given it a lot of thought.


Until yesterday, when I saw this: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/clt/d/palmdale-igt-game-king-slot-machine/6811206433.html (In case its been taken down, its a Game King with 12 games, bill reader and coin hopper, $900. Model No. 9640910R, Serial Number 588608, W/O No. 623160).


But the thing that really blew me away was where the tag says “DATE OF MFG 12/95”. And suddenly the dream is not so distant. Looks to me like it's just around the corner!


Now, I'm not looking to buy this particular machine, (after all, the “legal date” on it doesn't come for another 10 months) but I was hoping maybe you all could perhaps give me a “crash course” on being a first time slot machine (GK) owner. With, uh, not much electronics experience. So I figured I'd start an account here, ask a bunch of questions, and if anyone cares to answer anything I might be at least that much ahead.


Could there be anything in it for you? Well, I'd appreciate it. If that counts for anything. You'd be helping someone out. Gotta be some spiritual reward for that, I'd think. And just maybe I might one day end up being someone here's customer. Who knows?


Anyway, here's my list of questions:
 

• Is December 95 (24 years and 2 months ago) the earliest GK's were manufactured?
• How much is a “good” price to pay for a machine like this, and how much is a “too high” price?
• About how much does a machine like this weigh?
• What would be the best way to go about trying to buy a machine? Through a store that sells them, through putting a “wanted” posting in this forum or through a private sale?
• The twelve games this machine has suites me fine, it has the most important ones I love to play. If I bought a machine like this can the games be changed easily and cheaply if I wanted to later or am I permanently “stuck” with these games only?
• I can't see buying a newer version with a lot more games and maybe a bigger monitor for a lot more money. But would spending a lot more money get me some other advantage I'm not thinking about, like, for example, being able to get a lot larger percentage of my money back if I later wanted to sell it?
• How much technical knowledge would a person need to keep a machine like this up and running in their home? How “doable” is this for someone who doesn't really have a lot of electronics knowledge?
• I'm positive a lot of GK's were manufactured. Is it safe for me to assume that spare parts for future repairs will be relatively easy to come by? Are there spare parts you would recommend to have on hand to fix “common problems” these machines might have?
• I've read that the batteries on these machines last for about 5 years and that they are soldered on. Does that mean you can expect to replace the motherboard after that time? I've also heard there's some way to attach regular batteries. Is that true? Is that a way around this problem?
• I've heard slot machines can, over time, become a “money pit.” Can I expect that to happen?
• When you see people on Craigslist in California selling slot machines that are clearly not 25 years old, could you possibly be looking at some sort of “sting” operation? Or do people just get away with doing this all the time? (No, I'm not trying to be a “busybody” looking to get people in trouble, my interest is in keeping myself out of trouble).
• What other words of advice do you have? What else should I be thinking about?
  If I get no replies, I understand that's how it goes but thanks in advance if you take the time to help me with some things I think I should know!

[shortrackskater]

 

Just wanted to give you a heads up. If you search Game King here on the forum, you'll get lots of good information on everything you asked. This forum is designed for people exactly like you, so YES you can own one and you'll get help along the way from the great people here.  You'll be a slot technician in no time!
Hang on... responses are coming from the pro's!

[newbyneedshelp]

My avatar perfectly describes my reaction to your post. Woo hoo!
Thanks!

[shortrackskater]

1. I think they came out in 1996 so the tag sounds correct.

2. "Good price" is difficult. It really depends on where you live, and what version the machine is. Earlier ones don't have some of the great games, like "Fortune Cookie" (my favorite on my ver 6) but still there's plenty of fun games - slots, poker, keno, blackjack etc. You can change out the games on yours but there's some games you cannot add as they are not supported. I'm in Orange County, not too far from you. I wouldn't pay $900 for that one in Palmdale. I'd pay $450 if it's great shape and has an LCD.

3. Weight depends on the screen size, top box etc. I'd guess 250 to 275 pounds.

4. The only store that I know of here is LA Slots and they are going to sell it at a much higher price than anything private party. They don't list prices. You have to call them. If you do, let us know what they are charging. I'd guess their machines are newer-ish and they probably remove the tags with the date on them. They probably remove all the coin-in features and make it just a ticket printing machine, or "points only." Boring. My Top Dollar spits out HUGE Eisenhower dollars. I'd stick to CL and just ask one of us to review the listing.

5.  Games... sort of answered before. You are not stuck.

6. Spending more for a 6.0 MIGHT be worth it. They're now getting older and cheaper so you may just want to consider this. If you decide to, let me know and I'll start poking around CL as well. But if you can find the earlier versions, don't pay too much! But even the older GK's are not hard to sell. Just CLEAN them up. I see people other there selling grimy old machines. At least, shine them up! They sell better, like a used car.

7 and 8.  Slot machines weren't made for being in homes, but they are really not hard to work on provided you have some common sense. You don't need tons of electrical knowledge. If you know not to touch a live 117VAC wire, then you're good. There's a lot of people here on the forum that will help in easy-to-understand-ways. Many times, you just need a new MPU battery or a few bulbs to replace on the buttons. If it's a bigger issue, it's "doable" in most cases. There's plenty of parts out there for these machines, the costliest usually being the MPU board. For the older GK's they're usually in the $45 to $60 range. Newer versions are a little more. I keep bulbs on hand. Batteries are easy to find. You don't need to stockpile other parts. Most of us do since we have multiple machines. But once you determine a part you need, usually the wait isn't too long to get it.

9. The button battery goes on the MPU (computer board) and not the mother board, which is the board that holds/connects together other boards and connectors needed for the operation of the machine. And no, that doesn't mean the MPU will need to be replaced at that time at all.

10. I've never had any of my IGT's become money pits unless you continually shotgun parts without asking someone who knows. Now if you call a service tech (there's a FEW here in So Cal) yes you will because they may charge you $100 to replace a battery and do a reset on the machine but why when you can learn here?

11. I highly doubt that anyone selling newer machines on CL are the feds. I'm not saying that cannot happen but I think they have better things to do. Still there's two sellers blatantly selling newer stuff. One I believe IS in Palmdale and the other is in the high desert, Victorville or Hesperia I think. I've seen people selling their machines listen them as "great money makers." I hope they get caught because they're too stupid to realize it IS illegal to run a mini casino out of your home. 99.9% of the people buying them just want something fun for the game room, and NOT to gamble with. I use mine as piggy banks.

12. As for advice, just don't buy anything too quickly without consulting us here first. Once you do buy one though, if you encounter problems, please please please keep the subject separate in the topic area and don't start new discussions on problems already posted. Sometimes it takes a day or so for us to reply. This is an all volunteer gig here. Hope this helps and enjoy the hunt!

If any other members have more to say, please do so! 

[smoothgrh]

Congratulations on becoming a potential Game King owner. I bought mine in 2015 and have never regretted it!

The 1995 Game Kings are probably 3802 machines. Mine was made in 1998 and has a 3802 board, but I can play 3902 games. I recommend getting a machine that can use 3902 boards, unless you're on a limited budget and don't plan to expand. Because expand your collection you will!

I bought mine in Nevada for $500, but mine has a CRT monitor. Although these days, you might be able to get a good deal on an old Game King with an LCD screen.

Even though 12 games suits you fine, you'll eventually have to get a key chip, which is inexpensive, to play all the games available. Otherwise, it's like having a pantry of food, but you choose to eat only items from one shelf!

After you get the machine, you won't want to sell it. 

You don't need much technical knowledge—I'm an idiot electronically, but with the help of newlifegames folks, I got mine set up the way I like it.

[newbyneedshelp]

 Thanks. I'm sure you probably haven't even scratched the surface, but still, it's a heck of a lot more than I knew when I made my post. If you wanna “sticky” this thread for other newcomers it's ok with me.

 
I imagined if I got the answers to some questions it would probably lead to new questions, and I was right, so here goes.

 
About the “3802” board compared to the “3902”:

 
Were 3802 in the first machines and 3902 in newer machines?
How can you tell which one a machine has?
How many more games than a 3802 can a 3902 play?
About how much more does a machine with a 3902 cost?
Can a machine with a 3802 be upgraded to a 3902? If so, about what does that cost?
Does a 3902 play some newer, more complicated games, or just “more games”?
Can a 3902 play on LCD or CRT or both?
Are there other even newer boards?

 
I saw this machine on craigslist at https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/clt/d/las-vegas-igt-avp-slot-machine-85-games/6776707185.html that would be a real kick in the head to have but for me would be totally undoable pricewise. Its says its an “AVP.” Would this have a 3902? Or something a lot more “whompin'-stompin'” (and expensive)? Just trying to get a feel for what a 3902 could do for you.

 
About CRT compared to the LCD:

 
I imagine the CRT probably came with the first machines and LCDs came later. Correct?
If so, can you replace a CRT with an LCD in any of the machines, or just some of them?
If its just some of them, how can you tell if a machine can upgrade to an LCD?
About what would it cost to upgrade to an LCD?
Do you know of any pictures on this website (or other places) where I can see what CRT vs. LCD looks like side by side?(Oh, I just saw this thread: http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1484.0, so that answers that one!).

 
It was mentioned that “Spending more for a 6.0 MIGHT be worth it.”

 
What machine is the one in Palmdale? (I mean is it less then 6.0 or what?
Do you know of a picture of a “6.0” I could look at?
What else can you tell me about these numbers that would be good to know?(Looks to me like this thread, http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4802.0 with a post from "Ken" has a good link to a spreadsheet what is probably some really good info if I learn to decipher it).

 
About key chips:

 
Is there some kind of webpage or something that shows what various key chips do?

 
A bit more research shows that they very likely did come out in 1996. So buying one right now is not something that's gonna happen for me. I've waited this long, I can wait another 10 months especially when I was believing it was going to be about another 5 years. I just keep having this nightmare about going to Nevada and buying one and bringing it to California and on the way back getting pulled over and having the cop saying, “oh, you got a slot machine. Well. Lets take a little looksee and see how old it is. 24 years? Oh. You're busted!” I can't believe someone selling their machine on craigslist and saying its a great money maker. WOW!

 
TOP DOLLAR should pay off in Ikes, after all, that “CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK” should be music to anyone's ears. But as much as I would love to see some old coin machines out there to play I would keep to playing my own GK with credits, which leads to my last question for now. Is there a way to set up these machines to where you can just put credits on them instead of having to insert bills or titos? (Pushing a button and automatically getting 100 credits would be ideal for me).

 
Anyway, thanks again for putting the time into this. Awesome! It's like “GAME KING 101” in a thread!

[shortrackskater]

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11963.0

Read that thread that shows the difference with a 3802 and 3902. These numbers can be confusing and I'm NO PRO on all this. The machine in Palmdale is not a 3902.
If you're waiting ten more months... just report back here with what machines you're looking at. There are a LOT of Game Kings in California and they come up all the time. Likely the prices will drop as new games are introduced and the old ones get bought at auctions.
My suggestion is just do searches of Game Kings on BOTH sites. We have an archive site Newlifegames.net as well. All your answers are in there and the link I posted above is just a sample. Just click to GAME KING on both sites, grab a coffee, and start reading.
Another member might come in and give some more advice.
The AVP is a much newer machine, with a multitude of upgrades with graphics and sound, etc.

[wizeone]

i'm still looking at your original post, where you state CA law says the "game" has to be 25 years old or older.  does that mean the machine body has to be 25 years or older or the software release date?




3802 and 3902 are MPU model numbers not actual game(s).  the games come as memory chips and sometime sim cards.  afaik you can swap a 3902 for a 3802 without any problems. next step up would be a 044(or 4400 board) but that would require a new motherboard as well.(games for those run on flash boards that attach to the mpu, there are legacy boards that allow you to play older chip/sim games)


avp is IGT's newer platform which is more like a computer, i haven't had much hands on with them, i know they have a flash drive(weather that is just a licence key or the games and licence i am not sure)


there was a list on the old forums that listed some of the IGT software/games: http://newlifegames.net/igt-game-bible/IGT/IGT-VideoReel-GK.htm


converting to lcd it depends on your case/power supply/distro box.  most 17"/19" can be swapped out by just changing the monitor from crt to lcd(need to match the plug pin count and has to have netplex touch)  the old 13" i do not know if it's possible.


key chips depend on the platform/game.  i use 17/22/37 on 3902 gameking games.  the  044 i use a 28.  basically it is just telling the system you are authorized to make changes to the game settings/paytables.


hopefully others will be able to guide you better twords your journey of machine joy

[newbyneedshelp]

i'm still looking at your original post, where you state CA law says the "game" has to be 25 years old or older.  does that mean the machine body has to be 25 years or older or the software release date?

I read from a certain website about CA Penal Code § 330a (2017) 
It says "slot or card machine". If what I read really is the real law, the words "game" or software don't appear anywhere in it. Nor does the word "body."

[smoothgrh]

About the “3802” board compared to the “3902”:

 
Were 3802 in the first machines and 3902 in newer machines?: Yes.
How can you tell which one a machine has?: The 3802 has a tray that you pull out like in this thread: http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11963.0 and the 3902 has a tray with 1 to 3 SIM cards that are seated upright, and a Multimedia II sound board. Check out eBay for pics.
How many more games than a 3802 can a 3902 play?: Also check eBay—a dark path you will you travel!
About how much more does a machine with a 3902 cost?: Prices are all over the board at the sellers' whims, but a 3902 machine should generally be the same cost as a 3802—it's the LCD screen that should be the dominant factor, but again, prices are all over.
Can a machine with a 3802 be upgraded to a 3902? If so, about what does that cost?: Mine was plug and play, but I can't say for certain all are like that.
Does a 3902 play some newer, more complicated games, or just “more games”?: The 3902 games have better sound and graphics.
Can a 3902 play on LCD or CRT or both?: Both.
Are there other even newer boards?: Yes, then you start getting into 044 boards, and that's a newer, different generation.

 Hope this helps—and I hope that I'm giving accurate information!

[newbyneedshelp]

Thanks everyone. For anyone whose done this stuff, you may not think I still know much, but at least I feel like I know a heck of a lot more than I did. If anyone has more to add, keep it coming.
Reputation added for all 

[newbyneedshelp]

The machine I'd like to get needs the following MUSTS:

Super 8 Race and Super 8 Line
Some basic pokerA couple slots
and Blackjack

Must be the red (not blue) "GAME KING" (instead of some other name) and preferably with the round top. and be 25 years old (In other words that machine in Palmdale does the job, or at least it will in December).

FUTURE UPGRADES:

If these are to happen, they MUST INCLUDE:The ability to play 10 hand poker and 100 hand poker (and hopefully more slots, plus to be able to have more selections than 12 on the same setup).

LCD looks like it would be a really nice extra to have.

3902 (better sound and graphics) doesn't sound like a really big necessity, but of course, if 3902 is basically the same price as 3802, then get the 3902, it goes without saying.

SO...Just as an example, apparently from what Ive read here, if I've read it right, that machine in Palmdale could be upgraded with and LCD and 3902 (if it doesn't have it already), but could it also be upgraded to also have more game selections and also play the 10 hand poker and 100 hand poker games too?

[newbyneedshelp]

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11963.0

If you're waiting ten more months... just report back here with what machines you're looking at. There are a LOT of Game Kings in California and they come up all the time. Likely the prices will drop as new games are introduced and the old ones get bought at auctions.

I'm surprised there are a lot in California, with what the law is. I've watched on craigslist and see a few from time to time but the prices always seem kind of high, and there don't always seem to be many (I guess you'd call them) "lower end" machines.
Right now on ebay they have 8 machines with the lowest priced one $1300 (out of my price range).
Would putting a "wanted" ad on this site be a good thing to try? Or how about "wanted" ads on craigslist? What about those auction places? Got any suggestions of auctions that might have them?
Got any other "shopping around" suggestions?

I wouldn't pay $900 for that one in Palmdale. I'd pay $450 if it's great shape and has an LCD.

Getting one like that would be terrific!

(Here's some $899 machines with 31 games and warantee-though their in AZ, so shopping around I can see will be a good thing to do).

[newbyneedshelp]

Smoothgrh, looks like you had a good thread on some of this stuff, "Changing Game King 4.3 Chips" at
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=12181.0

Differences between 3902 and 044 (also 5.0 and 5.3, 6.0 is recommended)
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=21443.0

Here's a good page on changing games:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=printpage;topic=7559.0

Heres a thread on "How to clear an IGT Game king and which clear chip?"
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=23079.0
More on whats on chips:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4802.0

Blackjack game options:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=21707.0

Adding credits without coins, bills or titos
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=24823.0

What games are on at least some chips? Read this:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4625.0
Here are the games on GK 5.0
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2413.msg12091#msg12091
Good explanations of what games are on what chips:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=12429.0

Converting a GK from 13" CRT to 15" LCD (includes a good-side-by-side comparison):
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1484.0

Just got Game King and it fails to initialize:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=26450.0


How to use a keychip
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=17503.0
Key 22 installation instructions:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=883.0
Which keychip should I use:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=284.0Handling an 044 and installing a keychip 28 (video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7emDY0iojaQ
How to set up an 044 after using the key 28 chip (video, it follows the previous one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_B1e5_lp0


He fixed a horrible problem:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=19769.0
The machine stinks. What can be done?
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7890.0


3802 to 3902 swap info (includes mention of 044 and 13" cabinets):
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11963.0


Setting up more games on the GK:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=22139.0


3902 and 044 differences
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=15975.0
3902 game titles:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=246.0
Link to 044 game titles:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=269.msg737#msg737
Swapping from 3902 to 044:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=15851.0

Instructions for installing games:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=19500.0

Inspecting the MPU when you buy a machine:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=14751.0


I also found this out, according to a post, if it helps:
"All GK 6.0 versions are for 044 only (NOT 3902)"(So I guess this means that anything you see 6.0 or higher you'll probably need an 044).
"GK 6.0 will NOT work on 3902."
But, apparently, to play 3902 on a 044, you need a "legacy adaptor board."
 "For your 3902 platform, 4.0, 4.3, 5.0(simm) software will work, has poker, keno, slots, blackjack."

Differences between 3802, 3902 and 044:
"It is hard to tell by just looking at the machine.  You would have to look at the mpu board.  3802 is all eprom based, no simms.  3902 has simms and eproms.  044 uses a flash board.  That is how you can tell in a nutshell.  044 systems can run 3902 and 3802 software.  3902 systems can run 3802 software.  Depending on your geographical area, the prices between all 3 can vary.  On average you can expect to see about $200 price differences between each platfrom, with 3802 being the least expensive." (thanks, RickHunter)

What you should have spares of:"Granted, some of the components inside might have seen a lot of service time, but that is the reason why you should have spares of your power supply, mpu board, and possibly your monitor as these are the things that usually give issues with age. Power supplies and monitors in particular."

Hope no one minds the length of this thread, I'm trying to pack in as much as I can, anything that might come in handy later, as an easy-to-find a reference for when the time finally comes.  Hope thats ok!
(6)

[Rep]

I finally got my Game King this past November right before Thanksgiving and what a BLAST!!! I've had SO much fun with it, I hope all works out and you can get one as well. They really aren't bad at all to work with, there's MANY helpful members here (hell, I wouldn't HAVE the Game King if not for ppl on NLG). So just read and ask away, I know I would gladly help as would MANY other members! Best of luck to you!

[newbyneedshelp]

I finally got my Game King this past November right before Thanksgiving and what a BLAST!!! I've had SO much fun with it, I hope all works out and you can get one as well. They really aren't bad at all to work with, there's MANY helpful members here (hell, I wouldn't HAVE the Game King if not for ppl on NLG). So just read and ask away, I know I would gladly help as would MANY other members! Best of luck to you!

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm learning a lot just here and am checking out some of the other threads too. It looks like it will work out fine. And if not for the people here I'm sure it would, at a minimum, be a much more bumpy/potholed road.

When I get my GK, I wanna keep track of my play and figure out how much I (probably) would have lost if it were real casino play and see how long it would take to pay off the money I spent on the machine (in money saved that I didn't lose). (If that makes sense).

I'm sure your avatar is probably your machine, is that a CRT? If so, got any plans to go LCD?

Biff Tannens Pleasure Palace. I wanna gamble like Biff (but don't we all!).

[smoothgrh]

Smoothgrh, looks like you had a good thread on some of this stuff,"Changing Game King 4.3 Chips" http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=12181.0

Yeah, that thread was from when I was just starting out. You'll find that people don't always give accurate information—I'm guilty of that, too.

Looking back, it's laughable that someone told me that the key chip depends on the monitor—they have nothing to do with each other! The key chip depends on the game!

[smoothgrh]

The machine I'd like to get needs the following MUSTS:

Super 8 Race and Super 8 Line
Some basic pokerA couple slots
and Blackjack

If you get a 3902 machine, the game chips you want for Super 8 Race and Super 8 Line is G0001777. The chips with Diamond Mine slot will also have those Super 8 slots and Blackjack on it.

As far as I know, 3902 games support only Triple Play/Five Play poker. Maybe Ten Play, though I haven't seen it. For 100 Play video poker, you'll need a newer machine.

[newbyneedshelp]

If you get a 3902 machine, the game chips you want for Super 8 Race and Super 8 Line is G0001777. The chips with Diamond Mine slot will also have those Super 8 slots and Blackjack on it.

As far as I know, 3902 games support only Triple Play/Five Play poker. Maybe Ten Play, though I haven't seen it. For 100 Play video poker, you'll need a newer machine.

Thanks for this.
You mentioning that led me to another good thread that has some info as to whats on some chips:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4625.0

Triple play and better still, 5 play would do the trick. 10 play and 100 play would be dream games, and to get a newer machine would only put off doing it probably for years. So I can wait, but at least now I pretty much know.

[Tilt]

As far as I know, 3902 games support only Triple Play/Five Play poker. Maybe Ten Play, though I haven't seen it. For 100 Play video poker, you'll need a newer machine.

There's Triple/Five/Ten Play poker sets for the 3902 MPU. 50 and 100 Play will run on it too.